Uro clear 90 discontinued?

[Lani McGregor]

lauri: Artista has machine rolled reds and yellows that they say are not compatible,
and are replaced by Uroboros colors which look like hand rolled.

Lauri, I apologize if I am hammering on this situation, but it is astounding to me. That two manufacturers (and at least one distributor) are collaborating, promoting and selling a line of glass that contains important colors (red, yellow, and orange) that are clearly not compatible to the rest of the line is misleading and harmful to users.

That the incompatibilities in this line are glossed over by calling all the glass "90" when most of it measures at "94" adds to the growing confusion of what the COE means in our field.

My experience of the European market has been that users are more demanding (of quality and seller/manufacturer's claims) than in the US. Does no one complain about this situation?

-L

[Lynne Chappell]

Well, you can throw almost anything together and sometimes it survives. My second piece was a combination of Bullseye and Spectrum (and stained glass Spectrum at that). That was 9 years ago, and it is still in one piece.

[Lauri Levanto]

Lynne Chappell:

Well, you can throw almost anything together and sometimes it survives. ...

The Color emphasis is mine.
That is a dangerous advice. I have seen students ruin
fine pieces and even moulds with wrong kind of glass.
It may survive but it may also explode without warning.

A friend of mine to a class from an incompetent teacher.
They worked with float. Of the five pieces one survived
the way home. ( they had fused 3mm and 4mm float)
-lauri

[Lauri Levanto]

Lani,
I need something hammered through my skull.
When you stated that BE on top of Artista thins out,
do you mean
- in full fuse or
- even tack fuse - where BE contracts more but later and
is streched a bit thinner?

-lauri
I promise to study some European sites what they say about compatibility.

[Havi]

Lani, and others, Hi
You might imagine that i am following this thread closely.

I can support Lauri, claimimng that the distributors sell probabley red and yellow URO, and call it Artista. Althuogh I assume they KNOW they are lying.
As I said before , when one talks with the distributors about mixing different brands - they say that they always do it - and nothing bad happens. - - -

It happened to me too, at the time I was not yet able to see the difference. Artista [GNA] has a very unique texture on it. Once you realise it - you can very easily distinguish between Artista and non Artista.

So I bought red and yellow artista - and when I came home I saw that it was not at all the same texture as the other Artista I had. Out of elimination, I would'nt assume they would sell BE as Artista - I concluded it was URO.

Actually an American/Israeli Glass Artist just visited me here, and told me she met a glass artist in an artists' market in Tel Aviv, who also mixed BE and GNA - and claimed it was all BE. My friend told her - what are you talking about it is absolutely evident this is GNA - - -

[ArtGlassHouse]

I'm not sure where the second hand information came from... however,
Uroboros still makes hand-rolled, double rolled and textured clear all of which are very popular with our hot glass accounts.
Ron Bearer Jr.

[Bert Weiss]

Lani,
I need something hammered through my skull.
When you stated that BE on top of Artista thins out,
do you mean
- in full fuse or
- even tack fuse - where BE contracts more but later and
is streched a bit thinner?

-lauri
I promise to study some European sites what they say about compatibility.

Lauri

There is a temperature at which Bullseye is flowing considerably while the Artista is still pretty stiff.

[Bill Ward]

Wow, there sure is a lot of mis-information in this thread. I thank the person that said you should check with the manufacturers to get product information.

First, Uroboros Glass is very committed to our 90 COE palette. We make hand rolled 'double rolled' clear (60-00-90) along with 92 other hand rolled sheet products in this range. In the last year we have added 12 new products to this group. We also have a full compliment of machine rolled clear products that are widely accepted in the industry, now available in 3 thicknesses and iridescent. We have more than 700 additional 90 COE accessory products to go with the 90 COE sheets.

Regarding the testing of fusing glass we are aware of three other manufacturers that use a fused interface testing method besides Uroboros. These are Spectrum, Schott (Artista) and Bullseye. This test method takes into account several relevant properties such as COE, viscosity, and surface tension and their affect on compatibility. These properties are completely interdependent on each other and cannot be isolated when measuring compatibility. These stress measurment tests must be carried out against a known historic standard. Quantitative measurements of stress are usually made by using a calibrated polarimeters, as are used at least by Uroboros, Spectrum and Schott.

Regarding the Schott Artista product group it should be noted that it was stated that their machine drawn red and yellow are not compatible with the Artista line. I understand this to be true, and it is the reason they stock hand rolled, fuse tested, red, yellow and orange sheets. Schott is a multi-billion dollar century old glass firm that produces the thinnest glass in the world as well as scientific and many other technical glasses. You can be pretty sure they have both the resources, knowledge, and will to provide thorough testing for their fusing products. I recommend that you contact Schott if you have questions regarding their products and get the answer from the source.

Uroboros does not recommend combining Uroboros 90 or System96 with Artista. On the other hand, our 90 was designed to be compatible with Bullseye Tested Compatible and these have been comingled successful by many artists since 1989.

Hope this helps to clear up some misunderstandings.

Bill Ward
Uroboros Glass

[Lani McGregor]

Bill, Terrific to see you here!

So, can you clear up whether Uroboros makes the hand-rolled reds, yellows and orange opals in the Artista line for Schott? Do you make them specifically to fit that line?

Or does Artista just buy your "COE 90.0" to fill out their line of Artista that tests at a 94 COE?

Lani

[Brian and Jenny Blanthorn]

Wow, there sure is a lot of mis-information in this thread. I thank the person that said you should check with the manufacturers to get product information.

First, Uroboros Glass is very committed to our 90 COE palette. We make hand rolled 'double rolled' clear (60-00-90) along with 92 other hand rolled sheet products in this range. In the last year we have added 12 new products to this group. We also have a full compliment of machine rolled clear products that are widely accepted in the industry, now available in 3 thicknesses and iridescent. We have more than 700 additional 90 COE accessory products to go with the 90 COE sheets.

Regarding the testing of fusing glass we are aware of three other manufacturers that use a fused interface testing method besides Uroboros. These are Spectrum, Schott (Artista) and Bullseye. This test method takes into account several relevant properties such as COE, viscosity, and surface tension and their affect on compatibility. These properties are completely interdependent on each other and cannot be isolated when measuring compatibility. These stress measurment tests must be carried out against a known historic standard. Quantitative measurements of stress are usually made by using a calibrated polarimeters, as are used at least by Uroboros, Spectrum and Schott.

Regarding the Schott Artista product group it should be noted that it was stated that their machine drawn red and yellow are not compatible with the Artista line. I understand this to be true, and it is the reason they stock hand rolled, fuse tested, red, yellow and orange sheets. Schott is a multi-billion dollar century old glass firm that produces the thinnest glass in the world as well as scientific and many other technical glasses. You can be pretty sure they have both the resources, knowledge, and will to provide thorough testing for their fusing products. I recommend that you contact Schott if you have questions regarding their products and get the answer from the source.

Uroboros does not recommend combining Uroboros 90 or System96 with Artista. On the other hand, our 90 was designed to be compatible with Bullseye Tested Compatible and these have been comingled successful by many artists since 1989.

Hope this helps to clear up some misunderstandings.

Bill Ward
Uroboros Glass

Bill

Great to see U here

We realy do need more manufactures on warmglass there R far 2 few

I have been using Schott ( Desag ) since arround 1983

I have not used the Artista

I have been using Desag + a bit of Bulseye with care in some big peices, 20K +

Thanks

Brian

[Bill Ward]

The Uroboros 90 COE product was designed to be comingled with Bullseye fusible glass. It was not designed to be used with the Artista product group.

We are certain that all Artista products are fuse tested to be compatible with the Artista standard.

If anyone needs more information about Artista please contact Schott directly.

Now, can we change the title of this thread to" Uroboros 90 Hand Rolled Clear available!".

Best regards to all.
Bill Ward
Uroboros Glass

[Lani McGregor]

Wow, there sure is a lot of mis-information in this thread. I thank the person that said you should check with the manufacturers to get product information.

Bill, the best way to counter misinformation in our marketplace is for we as manufacturers to be more accessible in forums such as this one.

I was delighted – as I know the other members of this community were- to see you here. I hope it was not a one-time appearance.

First, Uroboros Glass is very committed to our 90 COE palette. We make hand rolled 'double rolled' clear (60-00-90) along with 92 other hand rolled sheet products in this range. In the last year we have added 12 new products to this group. We also have a full compliment of machine rolled clear products that are widely accepted in the industry, now available in 3 thicknesses and iridescent. We have more than 700 additional 90 COE accessory products to go with the 90 COE sheets.

While we at Bullseye strongly disagree with referring to these glasses as “90 COEâ€

[Lauri Levanto]

Quote:
Regarding the Schott Artista product group it should be noted that it was stated that their machine drawn red and yellow are not compatible with the Artista line. I understand this to be true, and it is the reason they stock hand rolled, fuse tested, red, yellow and orange sheets. endofquote

Lani:
Bill, it is common knowledge that the reds and yellows in the Artista line are made by Uroboros. This fact is reinforced by US distributors who present them within the Artista offering in their catalogs:

http://www.crloo.com/Products/Sheet_Gla ... ed_90.html

The last three items on this Artista chart are clearly Uroboros products:

AR-120-90 - Red 90 coe SEE U-60606-90
AR-105-90 - Lemmon Yel 90 coe U-60357-
AR-115-90 - Orange 90 coe SEE U-60608-

That is really obscure. I have not seen those glasses
on Schott material, until yesterday I noticed that
they were included in their sample pack.

I told earlier to my retailer that they are Uroboros,
He contacted the imported, who could not verify
or deny that.

No wonder dealers and end users are confused.

-lauri
P.s. I still wonder what difference it makes if a piece
of BE is under or over Artista?

[Lani McGregor]

P.s. I still wonder what difference it makes if a piece
of BE is under or over Artista?

Lauri,

Again, I don't have personal experience with this, but this is what I've been told by others who have:

Placing a small piece of BE on top of an Artista sheet creates a situation where the less viscous BE flows out over the top of the Artista. The interface that is created between the two glasses is of a thinner layer of the BE on the surface of the Artista.

Placing the Artista on top of a small piece of BE allows the Artista to flow down around the (angled) edges of the BE, enclosing the BE - on 5 sides within the body of the Artista.

The stress at the angled, thicker interfaces of the two glasses in this second lay-up will be greater due to the nature of the interface.

This issue of design-induced stress is an interesting one, and little considered by most fusers.

-Lani

[fusedlight]

[quote]I propose that we work together to set another, more accurate standard that is based – exactly as you say – on a “known historic standard.â€

[Lauri Levanto]

Thanks Lani,
I figured it out that way, too.
However, I wanted a second opinion.

I believe glass blowers with the non-compatible
Kugler colors must know more about design induced stress.

-Lauri

-

[Bert Weiss]

Glass is very strong in compression and very weak in tension. If you encase a higher expansion glass in a lower one, you create compression. If you put differing glasses together in equal layers, the glass will warp in tension with the higher expansion glass on the concave side.

I understand less what happens when you surround a glass on 5 sides.

A catseye marble is a classic design, with the catseye being a higer expansion glass inside a sphere. This gives the sphere much greater strength. This effect is similar to tempering, which makes the core contract more than the surface of a sheet of glass.

[Brian and Jenny Blanthorn]

Quote:
Regarding the Schott Artista product group it should be noted that it was stated that their machine drawn red and yellow are not compatible with the Artista line. I understand this to be true, and it is the reason they stock hand rolled, fuse tested, red, yellow and orange sheets. endofquote

Lani:
Bill, it is common knowledge that the reds and yellows in the Artista line are made by Uroboros. This fact is reinforced by US distributors who present them within the Artista offering in their catalogs:

http://www.crloo.com/Products/Sheet_Gla ... ed_90.html

The last three items on this Artista chart are clearly Uroboros products:

AR-120-90 - Red 90 coe SEE U-60606-90
AR-105-90 - Lemmon Yel 90 coe U-60357-
AR-115-90 - Orange 90 coe SEE U-60608-

That is really obscure. I have not seen those glasses
on Schott material, until yesterday I noticed that
they were included in their sample pack.

I told earlier to my retailer that they are Uroboros,
He contacted the imported, who could not verify
or deny that.

No wonder dealers and end users are confused.

-lauri
P.s. I still wonder what difference it makes if a piece
of BE is under or over Artista?

Lauri

XXXXXXXXXXXXX error in original corrected now XXXXXXXXXX

This is the technology we use with close matching glass


I mean glass that is slightly strained -glass X

Glass Z is main glass

We use 1 layer of the glass X then surround this with lots of the glass Z

Also bits of glass X within lots of Z is ok

But a double layer of X withinn Z is asking 4 trouble

The more Z u got with a tiny strip of X the higher strain X can be

I only offer this 2 a compitant n experianced user who is knowlegebble about bad strain n acceptabble strain

We have a scale of 0 - 10

0 is no strain 10 is cracked using the BE strip method

With this scale 2 is ok with the above method but 4 I would only use bits of

I am not advocating the willy nilly of fuzing just anthing together

Extra aneal is manditory

I never fuze just 2 layers together my X glass is always surrounded

Brian

[Kevin Midgley]

Brian your post tells the story experienced glass workers know. That it is always wise to extra anneal from posted schedules. The extra anneal is to take into account any unknown variable that may exist in the materials you are using.
Of course as soon as you start combining different source glasses despite their being officially combinable, there have to be unknown variables contained within them. The extra annealing is required to ensure success.
Perhaps the manufacturers could get together and create shedules that take this into account?

[Brian and Jenny Blanthorn]

Brian your post tells the story experienced glass workers know. That it is always wise to extra anneal from posted schedules. The extra anneal is to take into account any unknown variable that may exist in the materials you are using.
Of course as soon as you start combining different source glasses despite their being officially combinable, there have to be unknown variables contained within them. The extra annealing is required to ensure success.
Perhaps the manufacturers could get together and create shedules that take this into account?

Well I always check a few aneal tables + I do a pre aneal soak

XXXXXXXXXXXXX there was an error in my previous post corrected now XXX


Brian