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Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

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Don Burt
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Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Don Burt » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:29 pm

I do stained glass. I wonder whether shapes like stained glass rondels be made by the lampworking process? I remember from magnet exchanges that I occasionally saw cool lampworked forms that were mostly flat and could be easily encorporated into stained glass window matrices. I think it would be cool to make small (<2") rondels. or little transparent slabs with globby color on them. I know nothing of the process, but I visualize the craft utilizing mostly those colored soda straw rods that I see in people's studios...they don't make sheets of that type of glass for noodling the colored rods onto do they? Do people do this?

Morganica
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Morganica » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:29 pm

You mean like this?
canepanel.jpg


That's done by snipping a whole bunch of fusing rod and pulled cane "vitrigraph stringer," piling it into a dam and flat-fusing it. I typically compress it instead of dam it, so that I get a thinner-than-6mm piece that's perfectly flat and easily cut.

Not really a rondel, but I like the dimensional qualities. They'd make a cool addition to stained glass.
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Cynthia Morgan
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Don Burt
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Don Burt » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:10 pm

I don't get the vitrigraph thing. I've only seen still photos of people looking up at a drippping kiln with a tongs and shears. I should look up a video of it. People do it with regular BE glass right? Lampworking looks more controllable. But know squat about both processes.

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Morganica » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:37 pm

You stick a bunch of scrap glass, any type as long as it's all compatible, in a flowerpot, drill a hole in the bottom of a little kiln, and put it on stilts. Then you put the flowerpot in the kiln, turn it on and nuke it.

After awhile the glass melts and starts flowing in a stream out the bottom of the pot. You grab it with tongs and manipulate the flow, twisting it or doing whatever. When it cools, you cut the resulting cane into bits.

The stuff in the pic is all Bullseye--the bits that look like bulls eyes literally are the vitrigraph cane. The rest are chopped up rod.
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby glasstech » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:59 am

That's an interesting technique, Cynthia. Are the bits of rod and cane set on a thin piece of clear sheet before firing to create the clear spaces around the colors?

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Morganica » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:54 pm

You can (and I've done it that way), but typically not--the pieces you chop are generally longer than 6mm, so they're going to spread and fill in the gaps anyway. If you do make them shorter than 6mm, then yep, you'd want to have a base or something to fill in the holes.

This piece was used to make a roll-up--where you give the panel to a glassblower to turn into a vessel--so the pieces were about 10-11mm long. You need the thicker panel to give the gaffer room to expand it. So the base glass wasn't needed at all.
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Risa
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Risa » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:36 pm

I live in Cincinnati and sometime in the next month or so plan to rent the vitrigraph kiln at our local Bullseye teaching studio. Don, you are welcome to come watch.

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby rosanna gusler » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:06 pm

Don, just buy the torch. You know you want it. R.
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Don Burt
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Don Burt » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:09 pm

rosanna gusler wrote:Don, just buy the torch. You know you want it. R.


Yes. I need a kiln with a hole in the bottom too.

Risa, yes. I'd like to watch if by some chance you pick a day that I can get down there. Thank you.

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby JestersBaubles » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:08 am

I have a drop bottom kiln that is also used for vitrigraph. So far, I've only used it for raking and making a couple of bracelets. The "users manual" (term used loosely) from the manufacturer mentions nothing about how to set it for vitrigraph, though they included a stainless steel support for the pot. And you really can't find anything on-line. I emailed the rep who sold it to me asking if there was additional information, but that request fell flat :mrgreen: .

I've taken a couple of classes where we watched the instructor pull stringers, but no experience on my own. One of these days I'll get brave enough to say WTF and just do it ;)

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Kate Saunders
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Kate Saunders » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:10 pm

Cynthia, to go back a few posts--how do you press the snipped bits of stringer, instead of putting it into a mold? I'd like to work with some of this technique, but I'd like it as thin and as easy to cut as possible. Thanks! Kate

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Morganica » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:17 am

Kate Saunders wrote:Cynthia, to go back a few posts--how do you press the snipped bits of stringer, instead of putting it into a mold? I'd like to work with some of this technique, but I'd like it as thin and as easy to cut as possible. Thanks! Kate

You lost me there...press the snipped bits of stringer? You mean, do this same thing but with stringer?

Actually, the cane isn't that difficult to cut up to about 3/8 inch in diameter. Much bigger than that, and I get an old mosaic nipper and a hammer. But if you've got a lot of uniformly sized stringer or noodles, you can tape them together like a mini-blind, then hold the sheet down and score across it a few times. Once you've done that you can usually break them apart pretty uniformly. I've got some photos of it in a murrini blogpost:
http://www.morganica.com/glass/fusing/making-murrini-cane-in-a-kiln-jellyrolls/

I haven't tried that with more than one or two rod at a time; be interesting to see if that works.

It's a pain in the neck to arrange a bunch of (probably jagged-bottomed) stringer or rod or cane--they want to fall over. I typically cut some strips of scrap about a half-inch wide, interleave them to make a frame that's slightly thinner than the length of the pieces. Then I stand the kilnshelf I'm firing on at about a 45-degree angle, rest the glass frame on that, and start filling it up with cut pieces.

Doing it that way lets gravity do most of the work. I can just stick the shelf, frame and all, in the kiln without jostling things around. I usually lay another kilnshelf on top and weight it down so I get a perfectly flat blank.

Is that what you meant?
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Valerie Adams » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:13 pm

I pull cane in my studio. I have a Paragon Caldera kiln that I have sitting on a shelf mounted above one of my studio doors (and yes, I lock the door when pulling cane!).
905720_10151343931585683_1286211343_o.jpg

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Terry Ow-Wing » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Morganica wrote:...
It's a pain in the neck to arrange a bunch of (probably jagged-bottomed) stringer or rod or cane--they want to fall over. I typically cut some strips of scrap about a half-inch wide, interleave them to make a frame that's slightly thinner than the length of the pieces. Then I stand the kilnshelf I'm firing on at about a 45-degree angle, rest the glass frame on that, and start filling it up with cut pieces.

Doing it that way lets gravity do most of the work. I can just stick the shelf, frame and all, in the kiln without jostling things around. I usually lay another kilnshelf on top and weight it down so I get a perfectly flat blank.

Is that what you meant?


Do you have a picture of that? :-k what schedule do you use when you have the murine sandwiched between the two shelves? TIA :) :)
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Kate Saunders
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Kate Saunders » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:24 pm

Cynthia, Yes! Answers quite a few questions! Thanks, Kate

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby tob » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:41 pm

Don Burt wrote:I do stained glass. I wonder whether shapes like stained glass rondels be made by the lampworking process? I remember from magnet exchanges that I occasionally saw cool lampworked forms that were mostly flat and could be easily encorporated into stained glass window matrices. I think it would be cool to make small (<2") rondels. or little transparent slabs with globby color on them. I know nothing of the process, but I visualize the craft utilizing mostly those colored soda straw rods that I see in people's studios...they don't make sheets of that type of glass for noodling the colored rods onto do they? Do people do this?


2" rondels would be pretty easy for anyone with decent lampworking skills. Less so for a beginner. It would normally be done with tubing instead of rod, although for that size, one could also use rod and a small blowpipe. If you've ever seen anyone make a lampworked goblet or vase with a foot, a rondel would be made the same way as the foot. Here's a link to a youtube video I found that shows one way to do it using clear boro glass - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LweUhQmvjM

Colored soft glass would be done in a similar way. Extra colors can be added by applying them with frit, powder, or rods. But since many colors soften differently, they can complicate the process of shaping the rondel evenly.

I hope that helps.

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Buttercup » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:24 pm

Don, just thinking out loud here....you have kilns and sandblasting equipment, yes? I've thought about cutting circles of glass, fusing two layers together then sand carving or kiln carving the characteristic swirls into one side....colour to taste. Please try it and tell me if it works! Jen

Don Burt
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Don Burt » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:23 pm

I just watched that video that TOB linked. Pretty cool. How much did it cost him to run that torch for seven minutes to make a foot for a goblet I wonder? There's probably more learning curve and infrastructure to managing the flameworking process than I have an appetite for. But Jen, yes, I'm still thinking about kilnforming or potmelting a derivative of spun rondels for use in stained glass panels.

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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Tod » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:24 am

I guess it's cheating, but I've used feet from thrift store goblets several times. You can fire polish the cut portion in a kiln when needed. Of course, you don't get the dynamic swirls of a hand made rondel but they're mighty cheap!
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Re: Lamp worked rondels and other 2D forms

Postby Buttercup » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:35 pm

Love it, Tod. You could sand carve the swirls before the fire polish. You even have the pontil bump! Thanks, Jen.


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