Technique or trick?

ellen abbott · Post by **ellen abbott** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:07 pm

I was wondering what the general consensus is concerning the technique of sandblasting a piece, in my case the outside of a bowl, and then spraying it with a clear acrylic to bring it back up to a fire polish look. Is that considered a legitimate technique to do to a piece and then put it out for sale or a sneaky trick since it, ultimately, is not a permanent treatment? It is only a mechanical bond and so can be scratched or may decay over time.

ellen
http://www.emstudioglass.com

Amy Schleif-Mohr · Post by **Amy Schleif-Mohr** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:46 pm

Ellen,

Lots of people use stuff like mineral oil, wax, floor oil for the finish surface of their pieces. And it's perfectly acceptable. I don't see what you are doing any differently than what they are doing.

I suppose you might want to let the buyer know that the surface is fragile, as if the rest of the piece isn't, just so they can get the most wear out of it. You might also want to let them know that when the finish does wear through you will help them restore it, be it instructions or sending it back to you for refinishing.

Amy

Dani · Post by **Dani** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:54 pm

It's a curious dilemma, that's for sure. I think my guidance would come from whether the piece is meant to be functional and used... thereby increasing the risk of the finish being removed more rapidly. Or strictly an art piece not given to a lot of handling. It's a fine line.... for example, using min-wax on copper to slow the patina process of aging or the elements. Whatever you decide, just include it in your care instructions from the position of "it's supposed to be that way". Grin.

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 5:53 pm

I have used a product that is definitely a few steps up from a spray on acrylic in terms of bonding. I have never used it to cover sandblasting. I use it instead of sandblasting, or to cover up devit on the outside of slumped bowls or sinks.

The product is frosted Organic Bottle Coating from Ferro in Washington PA. I am waiting to receive a sample of a similar product from ICD coatings in Vancouver WA.

This material is wtater soluble and can be sprayed or brushed on. It is baked in at 400ÂºF for 15 -30 minutes. It is not a glossy surface. It is matt. Another term for this stuff is satin etch.

I think that it will seal a blasted surface and be permanent.

watershed · Post by **watershed** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 6:17 pm

just because I'm feeling verbose;

Armor All. I had never heard of it's use in glass until a few weeks ago. But I had some glued together castings, that would never see a gallery, so I tried it. A very sexy surface. All the detail, none of the frosty bits that can come from the mold.

Rationalization: Is it the work, or the surface they are buying? If I strech to Sculpture, many Bronzes come with specific care instructions involving waxes etc. I've been in Foundry mode since GAS, the whole idea of sending a wax to Czech, and getting back a finished piece, is so cool, if draining to the pocket.

There are care instructions for clothing, food, even some houses, why not for your work. Potters spend hours and hours telling people not to put those platters into a hot oven. Care instructions for an artwork, doesn't seem that strange. It may be strange to the customers, but they'll get over it. And if you CYA by putting care instructions in every bag/piece, then if they screw it up, they've been warned.

YMMV

Greg

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:03 pm

My general feeling is ALL GLASS and nothing but GLASS for anything I make.

I have been known to use an acrylic spray to even out a surface on something that won't get cleaned very often.

Everything gets dirty and when it's time to clean it, soap and water are the universal choice. Any applied surface treatment will eventually wash off and then what's the customer going to think.

I bought a light fixture one time and after several washings all the color came off and left me with a clear globe. Come to find out the color was just something that was sprayed on the inside and after a few soakings in hot water and soap it was gone, and I was pixxed off.

Just glass for me.

Ron

Paul Tarlow · Post by **Paul Tarlow** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:20 pm

ellen abbott wrote:I was wondering what the general consensus is concerning the technique of sandblasting a piece, in my case the outside of a bowl, and then spraying it with a clear acrylic to bring it back up to a fire polish look. Is that considered a legitimate technique to do to a piece and then put it out for sale or a sneaky trick since it, ultimately, is not a permanent treatment? It is only a mechanical bond and so can be scratched or may decay over time.

ellen
http://www.emstudioglass.com

It feels like cheating but I can't give you a rational reason why.

- Paul

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:26 pm

Now that I've gone to acid etching I can agree with Paul, that it does seem like cheating. But before the acid, I was buying armorall in the BIG bottles and marvelling how it covered sins and brought the color back up after sandblasting.

I didn't really start to worry about giving customers care-and-feeding info (re armorall or mineral oil) until I raised my prices......

Mark Kemp · Post by **Mark Kemp** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:47 pm

I think it's wrong only if a customer reasonably believes the item to be all glass, when it isn't. As long as you clearly state what it is they are buying, then they are making an informed decision. I worked at a store that sold these nice colored glass bottles. I was tempted to buy some with my employee discount, until a woman who worked in that area told me they were coated, and the coating would peel off. Customers, however, didn't know that.

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:34 am

Marty wrote:Now that I've gone to acid etching I can agree with Paul, that it does seem like cheating. But before the acid, I was buying armorall in the BIG bottles and marvelling how it covered sins and brought the color back up after sandblasting.

I didn't really start to worry about giving customers care-and-feeding info (re armorall or mineral oil) until I raised my prices......

Marty

What kind of acid etching? HF or a dip etch?

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:29 am

ellen abbott wrote:I was wondering what the general consensus is concerning the technique of sandblasting a piece, in my case the outside of a bowl, and then spraying it with a clear acrylic to bring it back up to a fire polish look. Is that considered a legitimate technique to do to a piece and then put it out for sale or a sneaky trick since it, ultimately, is not a permanent treatment? It is only a mechanical bond and so can be scratched or may decay over time.

ellen
http://www.emstudioglass.com

With our pebbles

Returned ones were greasy from handling

A few finger prints looked yukky

So I started 2 use 3 in one oil on them

On the thinking that they will get greasy anyway so best they start out that way

With the diomond wheels now this is not a problem

So I dont often do it

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:43 am

. . . and then spraying it with a clear acrylic to bring it back up to a fire polish look.

I think an oil or sealer, of some type, that the customer can reapply, if desired, is preferable to a cured coating. I don't have a problem with that type of coating, but I think I do with a hard coating that will wear off in time. Brock

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:47 pm

Bert- I'm using HIS's new ammonium bifluoride Vari-etch. Marty

rodney · Post by **rodney** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 3:59 pm

MARTY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on you situation of shifting from ARMOR ALL to ACID ETCH, are you getting the same results,,,,how are the results different,

thanks,,,rodney

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 12:35 am

Rodney- it's not quite the same- I'd like the acid finish to be a little "wetter"- but it is permanent. The sandblast/acid finish does add another tool to the arsenal- I can use brighter colors and have them quiet down a little.

If you're thinking about trying it, get a small amount and run tests- I'm finding the best results on BE opals, probably have to soak longer on the transparents.

Marty

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:17 am

Marty wrote:Rodney- it's not quite the same- I'd like the acid finish to be a little "wetter"- but it is permanent. The sandblast/acid finish does add another tool to the arsenal- I can use brighter colors and have them quiet down a little.

If you're thinking about trying it, get a small amount and run tests- I'm finding the best results on BE opals, probably have to soak longer on the transparents.

Marty

Yo Marty

Here is some technology that might B applicabble 2 U

Buff en Up tm

Rubb up the surface with a cloth or brush with pumace

It will move it slightly smoother

Should work on a battery powered hand dirll

But U will have 2 mend ur crafty ways as it is not licened 4 use buy those who use underhand practices of child labour or room steeling

ellen abbott · Post by **ellen abbott** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:14 am

Brian sezs:

With the diomond wheels now this is not a problem

Would you elaborate on this please?

ellen

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Mon Jun 23, 2003 4:21 am

ellen abbott wrote:Brian sezs:

With the diomond wheels now this is not a problem
Would you elaborate on this please?

ellen

Diomond / silicon carbide

4 the same work / surface removal, diomond gives a smoother finish

So in use U use a smoother diomond than U would silicon

Hence a smoother surface with diomond

Less finger print troubles

But at the same grit size diomond cuts deeper than silicon

In fact it kinda opens up the glass like a glass cutter

So this can give real problems

charlie holden · Post by **charlie holden** » Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:45 am

This from Warren Langley's class at Pilchuck.

He sometimes paints his work with sign makers paints or auto body paints, (polyurethane if I remember correctly, don't have my notes here). Then he seals the entire thing with hard sealant from the stone industry -- meant to be used to seal marble, granite or concrete. All of these formulas are designed to be non-yellowing in sunlight and permanent. Armourall is an oil and will eventually evaporate.

WarmGlass.com

Technique or trick?

Technique or trick?

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