gold leaf/ mica powder

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:51 pm

Tony Smith wrote:
Ron Coleman wrote: I've seen the same thing when sandblasting off mica powders. Pitting under the powders leaves the design pattern on the blasted piece.

Ron
Ron, would you elaborate on what you said? I've blaseted a lot of mica and have never seen the type of pitting that I've observed with using oil and foils... I have had an occasion or two where my glass got downright spongey under a coating, but that's pretty rare. I've seen that happen with irid, dichro and micas too.

Tony

I had a piece of black BE that I decided to change the mica pattern on, was gold mica too. Anyway, after blasting off the mica I looked at the surface and it looked like I missed removing some of the mica. It turned out to be millions of bubble pits on the surface of the glass. Silver mica on the same piece blasted clean.

I use Klyr fire and iso alcohol with the micas.

Still can't figure this one out.

Ron

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:23 pm

Ron Coleman wrote: I had a piece of black BE that I decided to change the mica pattern on, was gold mica too. Anyway, after blasting off the mica I looked at the surface and it looked like I missed removing some of the mica. It turned out to be millions of bubble pits on the surface of the glass. Silver mica on the same piece blasted clean.

I use Klyr fire and iso alcohol with the micas.

Still can't figure this one out.

Ron

Ron

I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but my worst case of spongey glass was with Aztec Gold mica. It looked like a sponge with millions of tiny holes.

But I saw the same thing happen with irid after two firings... isolated, rare events, but strange nonetheless.

Tony

Barbara Muth · Post by **Barbara Muth** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:39 pm

I have gotten the sponge glass with irid. Think we had an exchange about this a while back on the board. Wasn't there a suggestion that the irid sponging may have been due to something in the BE kilnwash formulation? Of course that theory gets blown away if some of the lucky ones didn't use BE pinkwash...

B

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:41 pm

Tony Smith wrote:
Ron Coleman wrote: I had a piece of black BE that I decided to change the mica pattern on, was gold mica too. Anyway, after blasting off the mica I looked at the surface and it looked like I missed removing some of the mica. It turned out to be millions of bubble pits on the surface of the glass. Silver mica on the same piece blasted clean.

I use Klyr fire and iso alcohol with the micas.

Still can't figure this one out.

Ron
Ron

I'm not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but my worst case of spongey glass was with Aztec Gold mica. It looked like a sponge with millions of tiny holes.

But I saw the same thing happen with irid after two firings... isolated, rare events, but strange nonetheless.

Tony

My piece was Aztec Gold too. Silver irid has been a problem for me too, against the shelf.

Ron

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:44 pm

what wash are you using, and is it old?

there's some posts by lani in the old archive that stated that there was a problem with the old wash having problems with irid against it. i believe it was the either the silver or gold irid that was the problem, which was pitting between the irid surface and the glass.

i wonder if there's also a problem with the glass and any coating of a certain type.

i'd suggest contacting the factory and perhaps send samples.

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:58 pm

charlie wrote:what wash are you using, and is it old?

there's some posts by lani in the old archive that stated that there was a problem with the old wash having problems with irid against it. i believe it was the either the silver or gold irid that was the problem, which was pitting between the irid surface and the glass.

i wonder if there's also a problem with the glass and any coating of a certain type.

i'd suggest contacting the factory and perhaps send samples.

It's new BE kilnwash direct from the factory. In my book silver irid won't stand more than two firings against a shelf, no mater what you do.

Ron

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:33 pm

I just did a search for gold leaf suppliers on http://www.signweb.com and 6 matches were found but they are all worth a look;

Art Essentials of New York
P.O. Box 38
Tallman, NY 10982
Phone: 845-368-1100 / 800-283-5323
Fax: 845-368-1535
Supplier of: Gold leaf, metal leaf, size, clay importer and distributor.
Website: http://www.artessentialsofnewyork.com

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Esoteric Sign Supply
1646 Wilmington Blvd.
Wilmington, CA 90744
Phone: 310-549-6622
Fax: 310-549-0180
Supplier of: Gilding and glass embellishing supplies. Brushes, glass and sand smalt, japans and glue chipping supplies. German, Italian and French gold leaf. Full 80 pc. array of bronze and mica powders.
Email: lola@esotericsignsupply.com
Website: http://www.esotericsignsupply.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

N Glantz & Son Inc
1177 High Ridge Rd # 133
Stamford, CT 06905-1211
Contact: Joe Hartman
Phone: 203-321-8524
Fax: 718-488-9466
Supplier of: Gilding Supplies
Email: glantzhq@aol.com
Website: http://www.nglantz.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P K Supply Co. Inc.
91 Horton Ave
Lynbrook, NY 11563
Contact: Simon Tracte, Joe Mauceri
Phone: 516-599-2454
Fax: 516-599-2850
Email: sales@pksupply.com
Website: http://www.pksupply.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

S&F Supplies Inc
93 Emerson Pl
Brooklyn, NY 11205
Contact: Aron F
Phone: 718-399-3333
Fax: 718-399-3375
Email: sfsupplies@sfsupplies.com
Website: http://www.sfsupplies.com

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Signgold Corp
53 Smith Rd
Middletown, NY 10941
Contact: Bill Crowley, Harold Smith
Phone: 914-692-6565
Fax: 914-692-3207
Supplier of: Gilding Supplies; Films, Metallized & Foils; Paints/Finishes, Gold Leaf
Email: signgold1@magiccarpet.com
Website: http://www.signgoldone.com

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Tom T · Post by **Tom T** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:51 am

For a very different look, but maybe the one you're after, you could try Hanovia Liquid Bright (N) gold. Put two coats on, then half fuse. You can do this on the surface, either top or under side (let dry first), or between layers. A 2 gm bottle costs anywhere from $10 to $30, depending on where you get it from. I love the stuff and use lots of it. The best way to apply it is with a brass Painting Pen, but a toothpick will work if you're desparate. If you fuse on the surface, the gold is much brighter, but it is still very bright between layers.

Alice DeGraff · Post by **Alice DeGraff** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 9:36 am

charlie wrote:
Alice DeGraff wrote:Bonnie do you mind sharing Ed Hoy's telephone number???
Thank you Alice De
dags

http://www.edhoy.com/

Darn it they probably dont sell to little guys business oh well maybe I will grow up to a big guy one day thanks for sharing

Alice De

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 9:51 am

As people were saying earlier in this thread, gold leaf is not the best stuff to use. You need "gold foil". I know that Thompson Enamel sells it. I imagine there are better priced sources. The foil is thick enough to tend to stick instead of burn up. It looks really cool if you stretch the glass that it is applied to. The glass stretches but the gold doesn't, so you get a lacy look.

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 9:56 am

Try Olympic Color Rods for the gold foil.

http://www.glasscolor.com/catalog/metalLeaf/index.asp

Ron

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:20 am

Bert Weiss wrote: You need "gold foil".

At 5-10 tiimes the price, gold foil is practical in small quantities but becomes cost prohibitive over large areas. Plus, it really depends on "the look" that she wants. She's also not going to get the diffused edges with gold foil. She will get a solid gold area with sharply defined edges. It's really a matter of personal preference.

Tony

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:24 pm

Ron Coleman wrote:
charlie wrote:what wash are you using, and is it old?

there's some posts by lani in the old archive that stated that there was a problem with the old wash having problems with irid against it. i believe it was the either the silver or gold irid that was the problem, which was pitting between the irid surface and the glass.

i wonder if there's also a problem with the glass and any coating of a certain type.

i'd suggest contacting the factory and perhaps send samples.
It's new BE kilnwash direct from the factory. In my book silver irid won't stand more than two firings against a shelf, no mater what you do.

Ron

My experience is the same as your's Ron. It's the silver irid, or the silver section of rainbow that bubbles, and it's on the second firing or so against the shelf. Whether you are firing on paper or with BE kiln wash or not...it's the silver that craps out on me too. I got timid about firing irid down (even though I like the end result when it works), then with some closer observation realized it was always the silver irid that bubbled.

Bold once again with irids girl and having fun with gif files taboot.

Barbara Muth · Post by **Barbara Muth** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:53 pm

Interestingly enough, I had it also happen when I fired the second time with the irid side up on the second fire (after it had been down on the first) and with the irid side down on the second fire (after it had been up on the first). Still haven't tried two fires up. Two fires down, it happens too.

experimental girl

Bonnie Rubinstein · Post by **Bonnie Rubinstein** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:16 am

Thanks for the tips.. once again, the gold leaf burned up when I sandwiched it between 2 layers ( is going to 1450 too high?) .. oh well.. may try the gold foil.
However, I did have success with the mica powder, finally,- applied it very thickly to the underside of clear, then placed on top of black.. it works, but it is thick and mat... I am looking for a shinier gold, sheer- almost 'mystical' appearance of the gold..

Alice, if you have a business phone # and tax ID #, I believe you can order from Ed Hoy.

Bonnie

Bonnie Rubinstein · Post by **Bonnie Rubinstein** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:21 am

P.S. I mixed the mica with klyr-fire.

also, Paul and Peter- I did use 2 layers of foil, but it still dissolved.
(???)

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:39 am

Tony Smith wrote:
Ron Coleman wrote:
Sonje wrote:
I'm glad this post was started...I have both gold and silver leaf on hand and have not tried it yet. Should I use any glue to adhere it onto the glass? Thanks, Sonje

To help hold the leaf or foil to glass, just use a little light oil. Something like sewing machine oil will work. You don't need very much, one drop should be enough to cover an acre of glass.

Clean your glass and apply a little oil and wipe off 99% of it with a paper towel, then apply your leaf. The oil will burn off clean if you don't use much.

Ron

While it may appear that the oil burns off cleanly, if you sandblast the gold, you'll find the surface below the gold is severely pitted... not sure what causes this, but my guess is that the trapped oil vapor has something to do with it since the gold isn't really porous.

Tony

I've seen the same thing when sandblasting off mica powders. Pitting under the powders leaves the design pattern on the blasted piece.

Ron

Avery has been using mica powders for 20 years, and I've been using oil to apply Gold and Silver foils and leaf for 20 years. We sandblast extensively and have never observed the pitting you are describing. Go to a finer grit in your sandblaster, the micas and foils or leaf have nothing to do with the pitting. Brock

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 1:15 pm

Beg to differ with you Brock, but the mica's caused some kind of reaction with the glass, at least with a recent piece.

Pearl Ex Aztec Gold and black BE fired to 1425 f. No visible sign of anything wrong with the fired surface of the mica powders until I changed the design and blasted off all the mica with 120 grit aluminum oxide ( the only grit I've ever used in my blaster).

Where the gold micas were, the glass was covered with millions of tiny bubbles in the exact pattern of the stencil and airbrushed powders. There was silver mica on the same piece and there were no bubbles under it.

This one has me scratching my head too.

Ron

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:36 pm

Hi Ron:

As you know, I've been using micas for close to 20 years and have never encountered this problem. I use them extensively on all of my work. However, I have always recommended the Carefree Rainbow Luster by Thompson and NOT PearlEx powders. Therefore, I'm wondering if there is something in the PearlEx that is reacting with the glass. PearlEx and Thompson's Carefree Lusters have two different and separate patent's and therefore, something is obviously different in their compositions.

Avery

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 7:51 pm

Avery

I don't know what happened with this particular piece, but the results are weird for sure. I've used Pearl Ex, and CR Loo's micas for glass many times and never had a problem before.

I haven't finished the piece with the problem so I will do some experiments and see what happens. I have scraps of the glass too so will experiment with them as well.

Ron