Glue Left Marks - WarmGlass.com

Glue Left Marks

This is the main board for discussing general techniques, tools, and processes for fusing, slumping, and related kiln-forming activities.

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Harriet Epstein
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Glue Left Marks

Postby Harriet Epstein » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:12 pm

I have used elmers glue in the past without any problem, but I recently tack fused some items and the glue has left a mark. Is there anything I can do to get it off?
Harriet

Brock
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Postby Brock » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:45 pm

Sandblast and re-fire. Glue is not necessary, IMHO, unles you're doing something fantastically finicky and detailed. Brock
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Jackie Beckman
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Postby Jackie Beckman » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:08 pm

Brock wrote:Sandblast and re-fire. Glue is not necessary, IMHO, unles you're doing something fantastically finicky and detailed. Brock


If I didn't have my little lid of watered down Elmers, I couldn't get a thing to the kiln! Imagine all those little foil pieces of yours, Brock, without oil. ](*,)

Hooked-on-glue-girl

Tony Serviente
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Postby Tony Serviente » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:51 pm

If the glue burnout is between pieces you're stuck, so's to speak. Try watering the Elmers down by half, and use it only along the edges of the pieces. You might also try Aileens, available at craft stores. I've had good luck with that, but be careful of which kind you get, they have about 4 or so flavors. I get the one in the brown bottle called tacky glue.

Jon Wunderlich

Postby Jon Wunderlich » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:57 am

I also use Aileens Tacky Glue with good results. Have been gluing lots of thin strips together, dries much faster than Klyre fire. I like the Klyre fire for stringers though.

Jon

DonMcClennen
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Postby DonMcClennen » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:01 am

Use Bullseye fusers glue.
"The Glassman"

Mark Kemp
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Postby Mark Kemp » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:09 am

I use Elmer's Washable School Glue -- Blue Gel. It's never left a residue, and no watering down needed.

Tony Serviente
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Postby Tony Serviente » Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:25 am

Mark-How long does the gel take to set up, say before you can move the work off a bench and into the kiln? Have you used it on clears, and in the center or pieces where burnout residue is most likely? How about cleanup? Same as regular Elmers? Thanks

Nancy Juhasz
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Postby Nancy Juhasz » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:05 pm

Tony, Not Mark but Nanc. I glued some black course frit down with blue Elmers and got a gray shadowing. For my particular piece it was alright just not what I wanted. I have used it since and used it before in opaque colors with no problems. BTW I was using Spectrum 96.
Nanc

Tony Serviente
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Postby Tony Serviente » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:17 pm

Nanc-Did you ever use it to glue other than frits, where it was in the center of a piece that might be as big as a square inch or more, and did you see that same shadowing?

Brock
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Postby Brock » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:22 pm

Tony Serviente wrote:Nanc-Did you ever use it to glue other than frits, where it was in the center of a piece that might be as big as a square inch or more, and did you see that same shadowing?


I'm afraid I just don't get it! Why would you even need glue in a piece "as big as a square inch or more". I admit, I do use oil to hold foil and leaf in place, but it burns off totally cleanly, I've never had a problem with it. I have made pretty complicated, detailed pieces, and have never used glue. Brock
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Tony Serviente
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Postby Tony Serviente » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:29 pm

If I'm making a piece to fuse face down and I lay it out face up on a bench, carry it across the studio to the kiln, and flip it over... You can see why I use glue. The alternative is to lay it out face down in a kiln, but in a production situation that is too limiting.

Brock
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Postby Brock » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:31 pm

Tony Serviente wrote:If I'm making a piece to fuse face down and I lay it out face up on a bench, carry it across the studio to the kiln, and flip it over... You can see why I use glue. The alternative is to lay it out face down in a kiln, but in a production situation that is too limiting.


And you're not getting bubbles and related problems from that technique? Are there pictures of pieces made that way on your web site? Brock
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Tony Serviente
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Postby Tony Serviente » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:38 pm

In the serving vessel section the Pi and Declination and all of the Quad series are done that way. I make some lamp shades that way too. Bubble trouble is nil, we use the glue sparingly and along the edges. The problem I'm always struggling with is burnout residue. On dense glass of course you just don't see it, it's the clears that get tricky, so I'm always searching for and trying alternatives. Trouble with the kiln specific glues is their thinness. Most of my work is based on Spectrum Baroques, and they are never flat, so glue has to do some filling.

Jackie Beckman
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Postby Jackie Beckman » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:45 pm

When I need to do what you're suggesting, Tony, I fire face up the first time, then flip and refire. Trust me, I'd be lost without glue anyway, but from the way you describe your process it seems as though the glue would burn off at around 700 (or lower) then all the pieces that were glued to the blank would fall down. Yes, once the blank glass softened it would eventually melt onto the fallen pieces, but don't they move when they fall off the base glass after the glue burns off?

Jackie

Tony Serviente
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Postby Tony Serviente » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:53 pm

There would be a few problems with doing it that way Jackie. The first would be absorption of the irid if I fused face up. The second would be the addition of a step in the process. Since my orientation is heavily skewed to production I'm always trying to streamline process. Movement in the kiln is not an issue as the glue is not holding anything in place that couldn't stay that way without, glue just lets me flip things over and put them face down. This whole discussion has re-piqued my curiosity, and I'm going to re-run a glue test that I did a long time ago, with the additions of some suggestions on the board. I'll post results.

Jackie Beckman
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Postby Jackie Beckman » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:00 pm

I actually like your idea, Tony, because it saves a firing. If it's working for you, I'd never suggest changing it - especially when changing it would involve another firing. It just doesn't seem as though it would work in my situation. I often times have four or five layers in an area that has two or three layers next to it, so where I had less layers, the glass would fall to the shelf as soon as the glue burnt off. Otherwise I'd try it myself. I like saving a firing here and there too when I can.

Jackie

Mark Kemp
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Postby Mark Kemp » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:08 pm

Tony Serviente wrote:Mark-How long does the gel take to set up, say before you can move the work off a bench and into the kiln? Have you used it on clears, and in the center or pieces where burnout residue is most likely? How about cleanup? Same as regular Elmers? Thanks


I think it sets up enough to move things gently probably within an hour or so. I've used it in the center of pieces at least an inch without problems. It dissolves in water, even after setup. Which can be a disadvantage if you apply devit solution and it seeps under an edge. Maybe you want to do a test or too to make sure it works the same for you, since Nanc reported residue in one instance.

Tony Serviente
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Postby Tony Serviente » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:21 pm

Thanks Mark-I'm going to do as comprehensive a glue test as I can within about a week, and will get some of the blue gel to include.

Nancy Juhasz
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Postby Nancy Juhasz » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:36 pm

Tony, I usually use it to glue frit in place or sparingly on angel wings that are about 3 layers. These agnle wing pieces are bigger and clear and I only use enough glue to get them from the cardboard to the shelf in the kiln. Never noticed any shadowing on the wings. I think it is because I use less glue on the wings. I also dilute the glue a little with water and use tooth pick to apply. Nanc
Nanc


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