Fusing Schedules like cooking a chicken

LesleyNolan · Post by **LesleyNolan** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:56 pm

Every time I get on the bulletin board I am amazed at the variations in schedules and dos and don'ts. When I took my first class about 12 years ago from Newy Fagan. She told us that fusing was a little like cooking a chicken. You can cook it at different temperatures and for different times and often get the same result.
I have since taken a couple of other seminars, taught for a year and a half and helped others with some firing problems and I am always amazed at what people do.

I have really come to the conculsion that within certain parameters, if its working for you....ITS WORKING! You do have to have an understanding of what is happening to the glass in the kiln. But some things that can change your firing schedule are;
size of your kiln
type of kiln
size of glass
thickness of glass
construction technique
colors of glass
type of glass
and the list goes on.

Lets not forget the appropriate libation prior to firing etc! We must always honor the glass gods.

Anyway, Thanks for all the help I have gotten in the past and its great that the board is here!

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays...whatever applies

Lesley

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 pm

How long do you anneal the chicken?

LesleyNolan · Post by **LesleyNolan** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:37 pm

Good question Marty. Lets see if you anneal too long does it fall off the bones...Oh that could be a good thing...or if not enough...Just stick it in the Microwave...

Hey why don't we have a microwave to just to fix our little undone things for glass?

Some kidding aside, I think why I wrote the orginal post is that I have to smile sometimes when questions are answered with such absolute answers. Or shock is shown at the way someone is doing something. I don't know about you but after 12 years of doing this I find very little that is absolute other than sometimes s...tuff happens!

Lesley

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:41 pm

Maybe some of us forget to put in the caveat that "this works for me when I do xyz". I've got 2 schedules on my controller that I use constantly- don't even think about it anymore. Until poop happens, of course.

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:50 pm

It's amazing how many things won't work when you first start fusing and how many things will work after you have made all the mistakes. Well almost all the mistakes.

Ron

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:08 am

LesleyNolan wrote:Some kidding aside, I think why I wrote the orginal post is that I have to smile sometimes when questions are answered with such absolute answers. Or shock is shown at the way someone is doing something. I don't know about you but after 12 years of doing this I find very little that is absolute other than sometimes s...tuff happens!
Lesley

I agree to a point. What I've noticed is that people have different ideas of what is an acceptable result. I notice a lot of fused glass that has what I refer to as mumps. To some people, that's an acceptable result and they make their glass that way. The only way I've been able to rid myself of the mumps is to fuse at 1480Â° for at least 30 minutes. Could I fuse at 1520Â° for 10 minutes? Maybe. I don't go that high because I found a combination that produces results that are acceptable for me and I stopped looking. I know that fusing at 1450Â° for 30 minutes doesn't give me acceptable results.

I've heard some people say that they get a full fuse at 1375Â°-1400Â°. That tells me that there's something wrong with their thermocouple, their pyrometer or their eyesight

But when you dig down, you find that their idea of a full fuse is different than my idea of a full fuse.

So, it may be like cooking chicken, but what it comes down to is "Do you like it?", "Would you order it again?", and "Do other people like it?"

Merry Christmas

Tony

LesleyNolan · Post by **LesleyNolan** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:15 am

That is so true Tony. I know with the people sculptures I don't mind that there is still some definition where a piece has been place on top such as a little square etc. It is a balance of time and temperature surely. Your work may benefit from a full and level fuse whereas someone else may not want that effect. I think that is what partially explaines the various ways of "cooking chicken" We all like it a little differently.

You are also right in that some new fusers also may not really know what is the right amount of fuse for the best result...experience has got to be worth something!

This board has helped me and I know a multitude of others to help along that level of expertise.

Lesley

Tony Serviente · Post by **Tony Serviente** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:32 am

I see lot's of analogies to my struggles with the saxaphone. I work hard at trying to nail down a certain solo, paying attention to every slur and dotted eigth, thinking I've got to do it just so or it's not right. Then I go to my teacher, and he says, don't worry about the details, just try to get the feeling of the piece. I understand what he means, but at the same time those little details are important, for whatever reason, to me. It has to be "right enough" so the notes and time are correct and the tune recognizable, but beyond that it is how I want to craft it.

rodney · Post by **rodney** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:47 am

[quote="Tony Smith"][: But when you dig down, you find that their idea of a full fuse is different than my idea of a full fuse.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

goodmorning, thanks for this tony, i have a quick question for you, could you write a little more on what some people feel is a full fuse, and why you feel that it isnt a full fuse,,,,,and also what are the mumps
thanks
rodney

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:03 pm

Hi Rodney,

Mumps are the bumps in the surface of the glass when fusing two full thickness sheets together. They are from the inevitable little air bubbles that are either in the glass to start with or get trapped between the sheets... they aren't the mongo bubbles that blow up into tennis balls. When you look at glass from the edge, you can see these bumps as ripples in the top surface. In order to smooth them out, I hold at 1480Â° for 30 minutes... 45 minutes does an even better job at smoothing them out, but the results I get at 30 minutes are quite acceptable to me.

I've heard people refer to everything from tack fuses to contour fuses as full fuses. To me, a full fuse is flat, with no countour to the glass whatsoever, and no taper to the edge. I suppose if you are fusing two same-size sheets together, a tack fuse could be a full fuse to some people.

Tony

rodney · Post by **rodney** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:15 pm

thanks tony, they explanation help alot

rodney

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:23 pm

Tony Serviente wrote:I see lot's of analogies to my struggles with the saxaphone. I work hard at trying to nail down a certain solo, paying attention to every slur and dotted eigth, thinking I've got to do it just so or it's not right. Then I go to my teacher, and he says, don't worry about the details, just try to get the feeling of the piece. I understand what he means, but at the same time those little details are important, for whatever reason, to me. It has to be "right enough" so the notes and time are correct and the tune recognizable, but beyond that it is how I want to craft it.

Tony

It is an interesting analogy. Something that fascinates me is that the greatest genius artists don't need "the notes". Miles Davis is my favorite all time Jazz player and he hits some pretty strange tones. He just hits them at a moment where they are soulful. I once saw a china bowl painted by Picasso. He used really primitive painting technique, but his brush strokes resonate like no others.

Meanwhile the rest of us still struggle for the notes and minimize the mumps.

I suppose it is good for us that glass is so much more difficult to cook than chicken. That's why they pay us the BIG BUCKS. Pass the paprika.

Nikki ONeill · Post by **Nikki ONeill** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:41 pm

Marty..Burt....
But there IS an art to cooking chicken, most importantly the annealing cycle. At full fuse, remove the bird from the oven and anneal at room temperature up to 30 minutes, depending on the size of the project. Annealing is necessary because the pressure from the heat of the coils during cooking pushes the juices to the interior of the piece. During annealing, the juices throughout the project will return and disperse evenly throughout, ensuring that they won't escape and be lost when the project is scored. Evenly distributed heat and juice is the desired result. Works for system red meats too, especially prime rib.
Happy holidays, everyone.
Nikki

rosanna gusler · Post by **rosanna gusler** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:00 pm

hi nikki, worked pretty darn good for your bumpy mustard vermouth porkchops too! lol rosanna

Rebecca M. · Post by **Rebecca M.** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:18 pm

But there IS an art to cooking chicken, most importantly the annealing cycle. At full fuse, remove the bird from the oven and anneal at room temperature up to 30 minutes, depending on the size of the project. Annealing is necessary because the pressure from the heat of the coils during cooking pushes the juices to the interior of the piece.

That's funny, I use the same schedule when fusing a turkey. That 30 minute soak really does the trick.

Paul Housberg · Post by **Paul Housberg** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:24 pm

This Thanksgiving I smoked the turkey in a Weber "bullet" smoker. The smoker cooks it real slowly at about 200Â°. Took 9 1/2 hours for the pyrometerâ€”I mean thermometerâ€”to reach 165Â° in the thickest part of the breast. Juicy, tasty and the best leftovers ever. Oh, and that's cooking it the day before, carving and reheating.

fun5oh · Post by **fun5oh** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:53 pm

You can get salmonella from chicken.........

Robin

LesleyNolan · Post by **LesleyNolan** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:10 pm

Ive gotten some great responses and interestingly some of you really understood what I was trying to say! I really liked Tony's analogy to the sax.
To me the whole process is fluid. I don't want people to read the board and look at what Tony Smith says and go " Oh my gosh, I better change my schedule 'cause I am doing it all wrong."

I want them to look at what Tony is doing and think, "That's interesting I might try that some time" or maybe "I will try adding a few minutes to my existing schedule." ( By the way, not jumping on you Tony you've given me some great advice in the past.)

Like Marty indicated, he has two schedules that he uses over and over. I also have a couple of schedules that I use over and over but that is because I know they work for the kiln and the work that I do.

Interestingly, however, if I put ceramic shelves in my big Denver, I have to change my schedule slightly. I also don't use the exact schedule for my brick JenKen. But I am usually constructing the same sort of work so I know what I want. ( I don't always get it but most of the time )

Listen to the wonderful valuable advise on this board but mostly pay attention to what you are doing. Newy used to tell us newbies "Don't call me with a question if you haven't recorded what you have done!"
Okay, maybe I don't record everything anymore but I do still write some stuff down.....now where did I put that.

Don't over cook the Turkey for Christmas...make sure you anneal before your carve!

Happy Holidays
Lesley

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:18 pm

fun5oh wrote:You can get salmonella from chicken......... :)

Robin

....and fish pee in our drinking water.....

Enough with the chicken, "viaduck?"

On another, but somehow related topic- those of you who do retail shows, have you noticed how, when you leave your booth, it fills up with people? And when you return to your booth, they all leave?
Well, the laws of physics explain this phenomenon. When you leave, you create a vacuum that sucks those people in. And when you return, you're pushing a volume of air in front of you that displaces them. This has nothing at all to do with your merchandise or price points or whatever the craft show public is thinking, it's simple physics.

Actually, you can have some fun with this- leave and then start back. Stop and then take a couple of steps backward, then forward- you can play the crowd in the booth like a yo-yo.

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:38 pm

Marty wrote: when you leave your booth, it fills up with people? And when you return to your booth, they all leave?

Actually the reason is people want to look at your stuff but they don't want you looking at them looking at your stuff, so they shy away until you take a hike.

Ron