My copper turned black

Judy Schnabel · Post by **Judy Schnabel** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:33 pm

Kathy,

I fired the thicker copper (from Michael's) between two layers of glass -- bottom layer is Spectrum 96 Black with clear 96 cap with Micro Pearl Luster #650. This copper turmed red and the luster is pretty neat. As I said, I didn't draw an object -- just spread the mica on the copper. I mixed the powder with FuseMaster glue.

Judy

BobB · Post by **BobB** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:33 pm

Jackie Beckman wrote:I haven't done too much work with copper, but I usually get a great reddish color-

copper tiles:

http://dell.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67 ... 41e20e84f1

I like your tiles Jackie. What type of copper are you using? Is it a powder or foil?

Thanks

BobB

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:38 pm

Back to the topic: have you ever painted on copper and then capped and fused it??

Nope. What I know about the reaction of Copper under heat is that it can turn MANY colours. From an industrial green, to blue, to various shades of red to brown and black. Also, sometimes the colour it has turned is masked by the base colour of your glass. For instance, I haven't seen it turn blue except on clear or white glass. I think it has something to do with the presence or absence of oxygen during the firing process. Brock

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:38 pm

Judy: sorry, forgot to say to you that the mica and glue mixture on the copper sounds really interesting.... I think I will give that a try to see what I get with that (may not get the colours I want, but the affect I bet would be interesting). Thanks

jolly · Post by **jolly** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:01 pm

Patti, I do put the shards between the layers of float. The larger the shards, the further the deep red will go into the center. The blackening of the copper doesn't seem to occur until near fusing so if the shards have slumped away by the time the kiln is near fusing, then the oxygen can't get in anymore. However, if the copper is near the edge, it will hold the glass edge up long enough (since it won't melt or slump away) to cause blackening.
As far as the photos go, yes the secret ingredient is stannous chloride. The kiln is in a garage by itself while it is gasing off the nasty stuff and I don't go back until the next day. Photo #2 is just a bit of s.c. in the middle mostly. This is in crystal form so it holds up the glass so air gets in until the crystals gas off enough. Most of these test pieces (photos) are small 8x8 inch and the process is never completely repeatable- it varies wildly, every factor changes everything, thickness of glass, speed of heating, how large of glass, how many crystals, final temp, length of soak and at what temp, etc. Be careful, the gas is DEADLY! -Jolly

rosanna gusler · Post by **rosanna gusler** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:44 am

jolly, have you noticed any damage to your elements or thermocouple end? rosanna

watershed · Post by **watershed** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:17 am

Someone noted Ferro frits to coat the copper prior to fusing. Got any numbers?

Thanks
Greg

Jackie Beckman · Post by **Jackie Beckman** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:44 am

BobB wrote:
Jackie Beckman wrote:I haven't done too much work with copper, but I usually get a great reddish color-

copper tiles:

http://dell.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67 ... 41e20e84f1
I like your tiles Jackie. What type of copper are you using? Is it a powder or foil?

Thanks

BobB

It's foil Bob, about the thickness of heavy duty Reynold's Wrap. I believe it's used for embossing.

Kevin Midgley · Post by **Kevin Midgley** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:06 pm

The copper foil from Michael's is probably coated so it does not tarnish in the store. Any suggestions for coating leaf so that it doesn't turn black? My tests on variegated leaf have been disappointing.
For those of you in the cold, the daffodils are up about two inches in Tofino but winter isn't officially over yet, might still get some frost. Come on out to the warm west coast.
Kevin

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:26 pm

Kevin: I would love to be out there - but there are no jobs. If you hear of anything, let me, I would be out there in a flash.
Enjoy your daffodils

jolly · Post by **jolly** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:39 pm

rosanna, no my elements are inside quartz(?) tubes so they are protected. However the thermocouple looks fine. The method I use allows me to use just a bit of stannous chloride, maybe two pinches of the crystals to cover a 24x36 piece of foil between two layers of float. Most of the gas is trapped between the glass and is busy reacting with the copper and only a little bit escapes. I've only done the BIG dangerous spraying of stannous chloride once onto float and am underwhelmed. It is cool but only when I catch it in the light just right so no need to do that often. -Jolly

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:18 am

watershed wrote:Someone noted Ferro frits to coat the copper prior to fusing. Got any numbers?

Thanks
Greg

Of the Ferro frits, #3419 is about the lowest melting temp frit there is. Starts melting at 1000 f and fires clear by the time it gets to about 1170 f. It has lots of lead in it.

Ron

Judy Schnabel · Post by **Judy Schnabel** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:47 am

Gave another try with the 1 ml copper.

This time I sprayed it with Borax after I had put the Pearl Ex on the copper.

This is the final result.

What matters is that my customer was happy, bought it and wants more.

I'm experimenting with the heavier copper from Michael's now. Took the Scotch Brite pad to it first (I think this was recommended by Tom in Texas) then I sprayed it with Borax. Just sprinkled Pearl Ex on it and will fire it later.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/vie ... &members=1
Judy

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:22 pm

So are you talkin' the Pearl Ex you buy at Michaels??? I just ran across it the other day. This is the first time I have heard of this. If so, I'm off to Michaels. Any other tricks with the Pearl Ex and copper or even no copper??

Judy Schnabel · Post by **Judy Schnabel** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:45 pm

Kathie,

Yes, it's the Pearl Ex at Michael's. I got mine with the Sunday coupon for 50% off. I think every Sunday they have a coupon for at least 40% off. The box with 12 colors is $25.00.

The one you saw had the Pearl Ex mixed with FuseMaster glue painted on the copper before I sprayed the Borax onto the copper. Then I took some little sprinkles of the powder and put some additional powder in dry form on.

I have one ready to go in the kiln tomorrow wherein I'm using the thick copper from Michael's. It also has Pearl Ex on it. But this time I used one of my little sifters to apply the dry powder.

Did you see the tests with the different colors of Pearl Ex? I've also used the Pearl Ex between layers of float. This is also on my picturetrail site.

Judy[/b]

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:55 pm

Thanks so much Judy: I saw your pics and love the colours. I will also look to see what kind of foils they have even I bought a bunch from Bullseye. I also have bought a few packages of the copper wire mesh from Michaels, so I will try that with Pearl Ex too - see what happens. Anyways, thanks again.
P.S.: Thanks Brad for developing this site - this site is GREAT!!!!!

Kay · Post by **Kay** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:29 pm

Several of you are using Paradice paints and copper. Are you airbrushing it on the copper?
Thanks,
Kay

Kay · Post by **Kay** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:31 pm

Misspelled Paradise. HATE that!

Queenbee · Post by **Queenbee** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:51 pm

Hi Jackie. I'm new here but I wondered if you have sandwiched silver? I do some work with silver wire (some very thick like 14 guage) and it tends to create a yellow color. That doesn't surprise me because of the component of yellow glass is silver I think. What i'm having trouble with is the silver that is exposed becomes so brittle and dull. Do yo know how to protect the sheen or get it back? Also, does the copper you sandwich effect the annealing property of the glass? I wonder if the tiles would hold up in a kitchen. I guess it depends on the thickness etc. Thank you for the pics. Ginny (Queenbee)

Lynne Chappell · Post by **Lynne Chappell** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:51 am

Well, I'm curious about the theories about oxygen getting at the copper. I recently was given a large amount of copper foil, I would guess its about 1.5 mils. It's folded in sort of a pack (chunk is maybe 6" square by a couple inches thick and weighs a lot more than you would think). When it's peeled off, it isn't totally smooth and goes down a little wrinkled. This results in a mostly dark blue-green cast to the copper except in the middle of larger areas that stay burgundy. This looks to me like the burgundy is where there is no air, and the blue is oxidized. I've never had it go black except when I put amber glass over it. If it was exposed it has gone silver grey.

WarmGlass.com

My copper turned black

Copper and Paradice Paint

oops