Photo Resist 101 - yo Tony...

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Paul Tarlow
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Photo Resist 101 - yo Tony...

Post by Paul Tarlow »

Okay -- I spent the weekend playing with enamels, micas and my sandblaster:

Image

I'm ready to invest in a photo resist setup.

I've spent a bunch of time at Rayzist's site -- but I'm still not sure exactly what needs to be on my shopping list.

Photo resist film is obvious. Thoughts on the SR2000 vs. SR3000?

I'm assuming that I can use Austin, Texas sunshine to expose -- true?

What about all that other stuff they sell -- wash-out nozzles, UV Vellum transparencies, wire wheel brush, etc.

Thanks,
Paul
Tony Smith
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Post by Tony Smith »

Hi Paul,

I've never used the sun to expose photoresist film. Perhaps it didn't seem hi-tech enough for me, but it was also that the film is so darned expensive, I didn't want to ruin it just carrying it outside. There's no color shift of the latent image during exposure either, so it's not like silkscreen film that gives you an indication that it is properly exposed.

The SR3000 is only useful for smooth glass, but from what I hear, it works well. I've gotten used to using the SR2000 with the glue and that works very well for me. There are some tricks to applying the glue and getting consistent results year round, but we can get into that later.

Rayzist makes a great washboard. Their $75 starter kit is a great deal, but their washout gun isn't very good. Photobrasive makes a great washout gun, so get that one.

You'll need to have some way of making your transparency, so UV vellum or film will also be on your shopping list. If you have an inkjet with dye based ink, you can use the photobrasive inkjet film which gives really solid blacks. Otherwise, you can use vellum through a laser and solidify the blacks with a clear krylon overspray. As you may be able to infer from my words, not all black ink or toner creates adequate black images on paper or film without additional treatment. This is the most frustrating part of photoresist and the reason many people give up on it. The introduction of the papers and films that absorb the dye based inks has helped, but they are more expensive than regular UV vellum, and people are either hesitant to spend the extra $$ for paper or film or they just aren't aware of how dense their black print has to be to get good, consistent results. Avery has worked around this problem in the past by doubling up her images and taping them together to get dense enough black areas.

The Letralite exposure units sometimes come up on eBay and typically sell for about $60. It's a lot better than the $300 that it costs to buy one new.

As far as the other toys, I haven't found any use for them. Here's a list of all the tools/materials in a nutshell:

Vellum or film *
Inkjet or Laser Printer
Photoresist film *
Letralite (UV exposure unit)
Washout Gun, Hose & Faucet adaptor *
Washout Board *
Magnets (to hold film to board) *
Blotting Towels *
Hair dryer (to dry the film)
Glue *
Foam Brush *
Burnisher *
Masking Tape
Sandblaster

* these items are included in the Rayzist starter kit

Hope this helps

Tony
The tightrope between being strange and being creative is too narrow to walk without occasionally landing on both sides..." Scott Berkun
Avery Anderson
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Post by Avery Anderson »

Hi Paul:

I agree with most everything that Tony has said, but he and I will always agree to disagree on the different manufacturers. I like PhotoBrasive products a whole lot better than Rayzist. I tried Rayzist many years ago, and was not happy with the way the film behaved. They may have made changes since that time. I find the PhotoBrasive company to be extremely helpful to my students, should they have difficulties or problems, and their products reliable. If you want more info, call Wade at PhotoBrasive - 1-800-643-1037 - tell him I sent you, and see what he can do as an introductory package.

As for the transparency film, you can double up the images...as Tony said, or you can purchase a product called "Toner Aide" by Sprayway which is sprayed directly on the ink side of the transparency. It darkens the ink. There's another similar product called "Casey's Ultra Black" which is sold through Valley Litho. It works in a similar fashion.

Avery
Nickie Jordan
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Post by Nickie Jordan »

Hi Paul -
I agree with all the above, except on one item.
A few years ago, I had a rather large project to reproduce on glass - 4 separate prints, of which the largest was 20"x 32" (we had the original artist's permission).
Rather than build a bulky exposure unit for $600, I used the Alaska sun - which was no small feat. It took some experimenting and wasted film, but in March in Alaska on a sunny day, the exposure time was 2 1/2 minutes. Everything worked.
The people at Photobrasive systems were extremely helpful to me as well.
- Nickie
Rick Wilton
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Post by Rick Wilton »

Avery Anderson wrote:Hi Paul:

As for the transparency film, you can double up the images...as Tony said, or you can purchase a product called "Toner Aide" by Sprayway which is sprayed directly on the ink side of the transparency. It darkens the ink. There's another similar product called "Casey's Ultra Black" which is sold through Valley Litho. It works in a similar fashion.

I use photobrasive products also, they are great. I don't know about transparencys but if you print on vellum, you can spray it with regular clear krylon or similar clear spray paint. It makes the toner alot denser (blacker) thus you get a cleaner print and easier washout.

Rick Wilton
http://www.wiltonstudios.com
Rick Wilton
PaulS
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Post by PaulS »

Rick Wilton wrote:but if you print on vellum, you can spray it with regular clear krylon or similar clear spray paint. It makes the toner alot denser (blacker) thus you get a cleaner print and easier washout.
Rick Wilton http://www.wiltonstudios.com
or the wife's hair spray.

Just out of interest Tony, what does the film cost you in the US? Their website doesn't have prices and you know how it goes when you walk into a shop with no price tags -they put the price to match how rich you look!

I pay US$5.80 for an A4 sheet of 3 thou or 5 thou film, they are both the same price. It is the APM film made by Aicello
http://www.aicello.com

I'd be interested to try out the one you use, just to see how it performs.
Last edited by PaulS on Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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dan001
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Post by dan001 »

http://www.sandcarver.org has an extensive menu on the subject. Lots of expertise on what works the best.


Dan
Tony Smith
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Post by Tony Smith »

oh yeah... did I forget to mention the photoresist film products that Photobrasive makes? How could that have slipped my memory??? :?

Seriously, Avery has had great luck with Photobrasive and they are becoming much more customer friendly. They have some new products out and their films are getting to be more tolerant of white light.

Talk to Robert Gaertner and you'll get great service.

Tony
The tightrope between being strange and being creative is too narrow to walk without occasionally landing on both sides..." Scott Berkun
Paul Tarlow
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Post by Paul Tarlow »

Avery Anderson wrote:... I find the PhotoBrasive company to be extremely helpful to my students, should they have difficulties or problems, and their products reliable...
Thanks all for the input.

Avery -- which PhotoBrasive film do you use?
PaulS
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Post by PaulS »

Paul,

These people make really expensive equipment and materials but of course the output is proportional in quality...

http://www.precisionmasks.com/
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Rick Wilton
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Post by Rick Wilton »

I pay US$5.80 for an A4 sheet of 3 thou or 5 thou film, they are both the same price. It is the APM film made by Aicello
http://www.aicello.com

I'd be interested to try out the one you use, just to see how it performs.[/quote]


All the pricing is on the photobrasive site. The prices vary because they have about 10 different films from self adhesive to no washout films. There most popular film (I heard) was the Ultra pro 4 mil blue self adhesive film which will run you about 5-6 cents a sq inch US$ depending on size of roll etc. I tried the aicello film years ago and didn't like it.
Rick Wilton
PaulS
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Post by PaulS »

Rick Wilton wrote: I tried the aicello film years ago and didn't like it.
That's why I want to try something else, Rick.

I think they changed the formula over the past year or so and it doesn't work as good as it used to.
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Brad Walker
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Post by Brad Walker »

Paul Tarlow wrote:Avery -- which PhotoBrasive film do you use?
I believe Avery uses UltraPro. As I recall, she says that it sticks better to coated surfaces like mica and irid than other options like Rapid Mask.

Hopefully not senile yet,
Brad
PaulS
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Post by PaulS »

Brad Walker wrote:
Hopefully not senile yet,
Brad
I was considering the same thing the other day Brad, and concluded that I wouldn't know about it anyway... :)
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Sara
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Re: Photo Resist 101 - yo Tony...

Post by Sara »

Paul Tarlow wrote:Okay -- I spent the weekend playing with enamels, micas and my sandblaster:


I'm assuming that I can use Austin, Texas sunshine to expose -- true?
Paul, Rayzist used to sell a solar model of the letraset and i still have it in my studio. amazing little box, although it took a fair amount of guess work depending on the time of day etc. I ran my business using good ol' Sol for about 5 years with more success than failure. Billy at Rayzist got a good laugh and commented that I was probably the last person on earth who was still using that unit :oops: I have since 'upgraded' to either having John Brauchi do my dichro etch or the letraset model when I want to do something different. Ha ha, long answer to say 'yes' the sun works with experimentation :wink: Billy may even have some exposure times for ya, my memory cells are dried up.

Sara
Avery Anderson
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Post by Avery Anderson »

Avery -- which PhotoBrasive film do you use?[/quote]

Hi Paul:

I use Ultra Pro film - when teaching I use the 5 ml, and for personal use the 3 ml. The 3 ml is a bit more difficult to work with, but it can produce the tinest lines possible. PhotoBrasive has many new films out that I have not experimented with. One that I have used is UltraPro Blue. It is repositionable but it doesn't seem to adhere to mica or irid glass as well as I like. I don't care for the films like Rapid Mask that you need to apply glue. If done unevenly, it can produce very undesirable results in the blasting. Good Luck Paul.

Hey Brad...good memory, you must be taking your Ginko!

Avery
Carla Fox
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Post by Carla Fox »

We've had the opposite experience from Avery. We had problems with Photoabrasive products and customer service. Rayzist has been rock solid for us. I like the Rayzist resist as it doesn't require the total darkness that Photoabrasive's does.

You also, might want to look at time zones. Photoabrasive is 3 hours behind us in Oregon, so whenever problems arose we had to wait a day. Rayzist is in our same time zone.

So many decisions, so much fun to be had.

HTH

Carla
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