Ever seen THIS before?

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smallbitz
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Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

This is what I found when I opened my kiln this morning. Looks like it snowed in there! A friend, who was a machinist, gave me a coil of some thin stainless steel (yes, I'm sure it's stainless). I used it to form into a circle (didn't have a mold that size) lined it with thinfire covered 1/8' fiber paper. I've done this many times on potmelts, etc. I guess I have to assume it has something to do with the stainless - but what? Not clean? What a MESS! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
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Bert Weiss
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Bert Weiss »

I do not recognize this. I have been using stainless rings lately, no white stuff. My guess is it has something to do with the fiber papers. Does it come easily off?
Bert

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smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

Yes, it seems to wash off fine. There is devit on the areas where the 'mold/snow' was heavier. I've used the same batch of fiber paper and thinfire as this before. Only new element is the stainless strips. So odd. If I put some of the stainless in my kiln alone to test, how high do I need fire it to see if I get the same - or any - reaction? 1400 which is what I fired this up to?
smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

Not sure if this will show very well, but the stuff is even crystalized onto the thermocoupler. It will come off, but strange...
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Keoni
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Keoni »

Did you pre-fire the stainless before you used it for your project? This looks like a chemical reaction , not anything to do with stainless.

-Keoni
smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

No I didn't. Never had to do that before. What temp. Etc. do I prefire at?
Keoni
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Keoni »

Before you put any stainless in the kiln you should take it up to at least 1000F to burn off anything you cannot wash off.

-Keoni
Keoni
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Keoni »

Did you spray anything in the kiln [borax, etc.] prior to firing? There is so much crystalization that it looks like something was on the dams, glass, etc.
smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

I sprayed borax on the glass but not while it was in the kiln.
Bert Weiss
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Bert Weiss »

White stuff that comes off, still leads me to think fiber paper. Organics from the steel would make black stuff. Borax sticks. Beats me???
Bert

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Keoni
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Keoni »

That was my first thought but if you look at the dams and the thermocouple, it looks like something crystalized on them. Leads me to think that something vaporized and crystalized on the way down. Hmmm, did you use tap water with the borax?
smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

Did not use tap water. I've used that same batch of borax spray several times. No problems. And you are right, in many places it does look rather crystalized. I've been away from home all day, just got back and about get on with cleaning out my kiln - ugh! Can't believe what a mess is in there. If I prefire other pieces of that (or other) stainless, will I run the risk of getting a mess in my kiln?
Lynn g
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Lynn g »

Since no one has been able to identify what went on, I think I'd wear a respirator when cleaning the kiln, just to be safe.
Lynn g
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Keoni
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Keoni »

I would:
1. find out what type of stainless that was, I do not think it is all stainless
2. Not use that type of metal again
3. Make sure the stainless you do use is something like 304
4. Pre fire all metal rings or molds before actually putting kiln wash etc. on them


Better safe than sorry,

Keoni
rosanna gusler
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by rosanna gusler »

whoaa! that is one hell of an outgassing/crystalising chemical reaction! i would guess galvinized metal in an unvented kiln. i would be really worried about my elements as well. ewwww. rosanna ps. a cleansing recipe for a metal contaminaqted kiln is to fire it higher than your normal process temp with bentonite clay powder in it.
artist, owner of wanchese art studio, marine finisher
smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

I cleaned it out, and all the junk came out okay. It mostly brushed and hoovered out. I don't know what bentonite clay powder is or where I can get it. Can you please advise?

Thanks so much for all the help on this everyone!!
Morganica
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by Morganica »

Do the crystals have any kind of odor? From the amount of deposits, it's something outgassing from a fair amount of surface area. Could be the borax overheated but like Rosanna and a couple others I'm wondering about the steel. 303 stainless can outgas and form deposits, as can galvanized/hot dipped metals.
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smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

No, no odor at all. It cleaned out very well, but now that there may be a possibility of damage to my heating elements, I'm afraid to turn it on! From all I've read (and seen) it really seems like it is a chemical reaction. My son is a research chemist, and I sent him photos and he thinks that as well.

Any idea where I can get the bentonite clay powder to clean out my kiln - and do I put it on the kiln floor or on a kiln shelf? Should I wait to fire it up until I can use the clay?
rosanna gusler
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by rosanna gusler »

you can get bentonite at pottery supply places. i would do a test fire with some scrap glass in there and nothing else. if there is schmutz on that glass after firing then i would go for the bentonite. get an unfired piece of that metal and torch it red hot outdoors. if noxious green/yellow smoke comes off it is galvanised.(or chromed) i would also test fire with any reactive fusing glasses before commiting a whole project in there.... i am guessing galvanised because i have fired forms made from galvinized flashing during a test the idea phase and got some fluffy stuff. i had however torched off most of the galvanised coating before i put the metal in the kiln.
artist, owner of wanchese art studio, marine finisher
smallbitz
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Re: Ever seen THIS before?

Post by smallbitz »

I'll do a test fire today. What a mess/stress this has been! I have a ceramic shop nearby, but not a pottery supply. Think they'll have it?

Honestly don't know what I'd do without this board and all the wonderful people and massive amount of knowledge base (and the generosity to share it) everyone has to offer. When I first found WG, I spent DAYS going through all the archives and just soaking up all the info I could get. It served me well, as I would remember later "I know I read that somewhere!" and would do a search in the archives - and there it was! Again, thanks for the quick responses!

SB
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