Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap? - WarmGlass.com

Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap?

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Kelemvor
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Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap?

Postby Kelemvor » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:50 pm

So, I'm looking to make a plate with this design on it:
http://www.badgerband.com/store/accesso ... _decal.jpg

I don't have access to any saws and just have glass cutters. I'm not sure if this is even possible but....

Would it work to make the outer "U" shape in 3 straight sections, and then placing them next to each other for the actual fuse? I was told that the piece might pull apart a bit as it fuses together and there could be a gap so the red line wouldn't look like it was all one piece.

I don't want to go through the hassle of trying if it's highly unlikely to work out in my favor in the end. Just looking for any advice...

S.TImmerman
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby S.TImmerman » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:11 pm

I'm no expert but if you make it in two layers with the design facing the shelf you'll get crisp lines, this is called flip firing. Glue very sparingly on a full sheet and then flip it over on your kiln shelf. After fusing , sandblast and refire facing up to get a glossy finish. Then slump
-ST

Kevin Midgley
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Kevin Midgley » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:31 pm

get a decal made.

JestersBaubles
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby JestersBaubles » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:04 am

Kelemvor wrote:Would it work to make the outer "U" shape in 3 straight sections, and then placing them next to each other for the actual fuse? I was told that the piece might pull apart a bit as it fuses together and there could be a gap so the red line wouldn't look like it was all one piece.


You will almost certainly be able to see the lines where the pieces are joined if you use only a single layer of red glass on top of the base. Cut the pieces for the U using two layers of glass, but cut the top layer so that pieces of it cover over the joins of the bottom layer. Not sure that makes sense so let's try this "visually" :mrgreen: .

[_________][__________] (this is two pieces of glass, side by side)
[_______________] (the top layer covers the seams of the bottom layer) (edited since the editor took out my spaces!)

You'll want the entire piece to be covered with two layers of glass, even though I didn't show it above.

HTH, Dana W.

williamslaybaugh
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby williamslaybaugh » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:42 am

You might want to try your local stain glass shop they might be able to cut it out in one piece for you.

Stephen Richard
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Stephen Richard » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:40 am

It has been suggested on this board before that you can bevel the edges of the glass that a-joins so there is an overlap of sorts:

_______/ /_________

I use powder of the same colour to cover the joint and help disguise the join. This works only if you are going to full fuse though.

You could make a powder wafer to put on top of the two layer blank.

Generally it is better to design something that suits the characteristics of glass.
Steve Richard
You can view my Blog at: http://verrier-glass.blogspot.com/

Kelemvor
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Kelemvor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:49 am

williamslaybaugh wrote:You might want to try your local stain glass shop they might be able to cut it out in one piece for you.


Yeah, my wife is heading there today so I'll have her bring along a sample. The next question is, even if I get the bit "U" piece cut, if I set the design on top of something else and fuse it, I'm assuming it will have somewhat wavy lines when it's done. Or I'd also have to cut the white part out as well and make it fit just right...

I basically want to make a square plate with that design in the middle. Thought of making the plate either white or black with the logo in red. Would it work better to set the logo on the shelf and put a big sheet of the background color OVER the logo? Would that help the logo retain it's shape ans sharp lines? Could then flip it over and give it a quick fire to smooth everything out when it's done?

Hmmm.

Brock
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Brock » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:59 am

" It has been suggested on this board before that you can bevel the edges of the glass that a-joins so there is an overlap of sorts:"

Well I'd love to see a picture of that. Sounds like a wild surmise to me . . . has it been done?

Valerie Adams
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Valerie Adams » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:43 am

I beveled the corners on some thicker pieces I made last year because my design elements needed to be seamless:
corner2.jpg
corner.jpg
corner.jpg (30.72 KiB) Viewed 10668 times

Brock
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Brock » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:45 am

Yeah, I've done that too. I'm talking about a horizontal overlap to join 2 flat pieces. Anyone done that?

Kelemvor
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Kelemvor » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:48 am

Brock wrote:Yeah, I've done that too. I'm talking about a horizontal overlap to join 2 flat pieces. Anyone done that?


Well, if no one has, I'll have our instructor do some this week and see what happens.

Kevin Midgley
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Kevin Midgley » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:52 pm

aaaah well since our Brock is/was one of the best instructors going, I'd like to suggest the odds of success in terms of effort expended vs results won't be happening.
A joint like that in order to be 'clear' would need to be polished. First of all try polishing a bevel on 3mm thick rippled surface glass.... and then get it to match with the next piece of 3 mm rippled surface glass....... ](*,)

Morganica
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Morganica » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:55 pm

I think Brock's right. Long time ago (maybe 8,9 years) I tried it, with uneven results. I was just grinding the edges to a fairly acute angle, and joining them. It worked but I'd frequently get gaps in some part of the line and assumed it was because my angle was off and/or I'd removed too much glass there, or possibly the hand-rolled glass was a bit thinner in those spots. I decided that the extra effort wasn't worth it--if you could absolutely control the angle and thickness of the glass (i.e., if you were cutting at an angle with a good saw on machine-rolled glass) it'd probably work well. For me, it's faster and easier to do straight cuts, then either overlap the pieces slightly, or simply flip-n-fire.

Flip-n-fire's pretty foolproof if you've got a good, flat kilnshelf without dings, enough glass and you can clean off the bottom surface before the next firing.

I do this with picture frames and such--I use thin glass (mostly because I'm mixing colors) and lap the joints at the corners, like this:
lap joints.png

It's similar to what Dana's talking about. As long as you're using the same colors any pullback will blend into the layer below. I've had it show a bit in pale, transparent colors (I think because of tiny bubbles veiling at the edge), but otherwise it's pretty seamless.
Cynthia Morgan
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Jerrwel
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Jerrwel » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:37 pm

Kelemvor wrote:So, I'm looking to make a plate with this design on it:
http://www.badgerband.com/store/accesso ... _decal.jpg

I don't have access to any saws and just have glass cutters. I'm not sure if this is even possible but....

Would it work to make the outer "U" shape in 3 straight sections, and then placing them next to each other for the actual fuse? I was told that the piece might pull apart a bit as it fuses together and there could be a gap so the red line wouldn't look like it was all one piece.

I don't want to go through the hassle of trying if it's highly unlikely to work out in my favor in the end. Just looking for any advice...


The new 'Flexi-Glass Medium' may be appropriate for this project. See Stained Glass News issue 100 page 12 for an article about using the product.
Jerry

williamslaybaugh
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby williamslaybaugh » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:51 pm

Kelemvor
if I set the design on top of something else and fuse it, I'm assuming it will have somewhat wavy lines when it's done.


Not sure what you mean by wavy lines. The edges of the design will be defused and the corners at the tops of the U will be rounded if you do not fill in the spaces. You can also control the spread with how much heat is applied and for how long. If you want a full fuse there will be more spread and at a tack fuse there will be none. As far as the black and white backgrounds, you might want to think about doing some heating tests with the red because they are going to react very different at the same temp.

Valerie Adams
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Valerie Adams » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:37 pm

Can you have someone cut out the U-shape on a ring saw?

JestersBaubles
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby JestersBaubles » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:13 pm

Morganica wrote:It's similar to what Dana's talking about. As long as you're using the same colors any pullback will blend into the layer below. I've had it show a bit in pale, transparent colors (I think because of tiny bubbles veiling at the edge), but otherwise it's pretty seamless.


It is what I'm talking about, but you have nice drawings :)

Dana

Tod
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Tod » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:21 pm

One way to get extremely accurate glass pieces is with abrasive waterjet cutting. These can be cut to within a few thousandth of an inch. May be too pricey for most projects but it surely is as accurate as you can get, esp on such challenging shapes. - Tod
please visit Beall Glass Studio on Face Book

Laurie Saukko
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Re: Do touching pieces fuse together or might there be a gap

Postby Laurie Saukko » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:05 pm

I had done a whole series of Stripe plates...I did not overwork these....I cut them, laid them beside each other and capped them with clear. Not a single gap. I had also done a curved piece that was none too perfect(it was an experiement)...it was the peel and the meat for an orange slice dish...again no gaps. I think the cap doesn't allow the glass to move around underneath and so it is forced to go into the gaps because that is the only place it can go.


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