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Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:24 pm
by Bonnie Rubinstein
A piece that was 24" x 18", nicely slumped in certain areas, has cracked after I sandblasted it. Not sure why, but it is a clean break and I must repair. Can't refire. I will look into why it broke later on..right now I need to get an adhesive.

So, I would like a fairly thin adhesive, so the crack will NOT show. I see alot of threads about Hxtyl, but that is very slow drying ( a week); Silicon II...but thick would be too thick. I tried Triolyse once without success on different piece.

So, looking for advice. Strong, thinner, clear or almost clear..

Thank you!!

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:50 pm
by Bonnie Rubinstein
in doing research, I am now looking at Loctite 363 UV adhesive.. has anyone tried this?

thank you.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:05 pm
by AndyT
I've used Weldbond with good success.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:38 pm
by Bert Weiss
There is a catch. When stressed glass breaks, the stresses change as does the shape. So the 2 pieces may no longer be the same shape. Hextal is the best. It takes a week to set up, and is the least likely glue to turn yellow with age. UV glue may work. If the shapes don't match, it will surely look like glued together glass. I once did a restoration on a 19th century glass painting. A painter broke it with a ladder. In the end, it was a glued together piece of antique glass.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:51 pm
by Bonnie Rubinstein
the break so so clean and perfect, that I am considering Superglue..I just tested it out on a clean break..it sure does hold!

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:56 pm
by Valerie Adams
I don't think I'd use Superglue, unless this is a piece you're keeping. I used it years ago, the first time I glued on bails. Seemed perfect, until I unpacked all my pendants at a show and discovered all the bails had fallen off. Of course, glass to glass may be fine, but wanted to let you know!

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:09 pm
by Bonnie Rubinstein
yes, glass to glass is different..Superglue would not work with bails.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:09 am
by Lynn g
I made a casting of my hands in a class about 5 years ago. It cracked while cleaning it (got too excited and forgot that the inside might not be completely cool!). I used UV glue and sunshine to repair it; lightly sandblasted it to make sure the crack wouldn't show and it's still together after all this time.
Can't remember the brand, but it was inexpensive clear UV glue from the hardware store.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:13 pm
by Bonnie Rubinstein
update:
well,in speaking with Super Glue Corp., I found out that Superglue is not intended for long-term holding of glass. And their UV Glass Adhesive does not work on colored glass, as the UV can't cure the liquid efficiently unless glass is clear. So, am on the search for a UV adhesive for colored glass. a task for manana.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:29 pm
by Cheryl
Hxtal cures in 24 hours in a 120 degree kiln

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:51 pm
by Morganica
Bonnie Rubinstein wrote:update:
well,in speaking with Super Glue Corp., I found out that Superglue is not intended for long-term holding of glass. And their UV Glass Adhesive does not work on colored glass, as the UV can't cure the liquid efficiently unless glass is clear. So, am on the search for a UV adhesive for colored glass. a task for manana.

Yup. Superglue tends to take up surrounding moisture, something that makes it especially good for grabbing fingerprints, but lousy for creating permanent, strong bonds. I use a water soak to remove stubborn superglue--works well.

Be a little careful about rapid heat cures with HXTAL--that 120-degree business is for a specific method for thickening HXTAL in a water bath before you use it, not to cure it once applied. They recommend curing in two days in a heatbox (closed box lined with aluminum foil, containing a lightbulb) around 90 degreesF, but I've heard reports that the bond is not as strong.

One thing to note: What kind of break are we talking about? The choice of glue may also depend on the stress applied, and on how much contact you'll have between surfaces. A crack down the center of a plate, where you have big overhangs of glass on either side, wanting to drop, may not present enough surface area for the adhesive to hold.

I tend to use Loctite 349 for joins where the UV light can get in, and DP105 where it can't. And HXTAL where I need the strength and can figure out how to clamp the pieces together.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:26 am
by Bonnie Rubinstein
Thanks, Cynthia.

The break in the glass is about 12" long, and the glass thickness ranges from 1/8" to 14". The glass has some relief here, and part of it is flat.
DP105 is designed for glass to metal, I believe..do you use it glass to glass? also, it is pretty thick.

I will call Loctite for specs re: colored glass, and Dymax corp. also has adhesives.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:45 am
by Morganica
Bonnie Rubinstein wrote:Thanks, Cynthia.

The break in the glass is about 12" long, and the glass thickness ranges from 1/8" to 14". The glass has some relief here, and part of it is flat.
DP105 is designed for glass to metal, I believe..do you use it glass to glass? also, it is pretty thick.

I will call Loctite for specs re: colored glass, and Dymax corp. also has adhesives.

I've used it for glass-to-glass without problem. Your glass rnages from an eighth of an inch to FOURTEEN inches thick? Wow...that's some relief. ;-)

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:46 am
by Bonnie Rubinstein
no kidding!..

woops..that would have been some relief!
It was a typo and should have read 1/4" sorry!

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:15 pm
by Morganica
You might also call 3M. Of the major glueguys (Henkel Loctite, Dymax, Fastenal, Fuller, etc.), I've found 3M to be the most helpful with questions. We had a 3M rep come out to explain glass adhesives at our local glass guild meeting and it was extremely informative. Their website is a good place to start:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3M-Industrial/Adhesives/Resources

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am
by Faye Malench
Cynthia, how large are the pieces you adhere with DP105? I have a repair to a Murano piece; it was obviously epoxied together when made then the join failed. Base is heavy sphere about 4 inches - top is a heavy spiral about 12 inches tall. Both are clear. My uses of DP105 in the past are metal to glass and clarity was not necessary.
I understand that DP105 can be released by soaking in acetone. If that proves to be true I can dismantle this and try something different. I am going to lap grind the old broken epoxy away.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:27 am
by Morganica
Faye, I tend to stick to smaller stuff with DP105, small wall hangings or pendants, or glass-to-glass with a reasonable fit. Not that it wouldn't work, but I've never tried it so I can't say.

I believe I'd head for HXTAL if confronted with that kind of a join. I have used HXTAL for larger castings, and as long as you can clamp or hold it in one position for the recommended (long) time, it'll hold better than anything I know with little or no joint showing. It's very clear; I've used it to flood cracks on finicky little lampwork pieces and make the damage invisible. (I had a collection of boro insects that my cat regularly batted to the floor when it was time for breakfast, so I got a lot of practice) The big deal is getting the surface areas absolutely clean and then using silane or something similiar to avoid any hygroscopic problems.

If there's a natural segmentation between the pieces, you could try clear VHB tape--they stick on airplane wings and glue windows to skyscrapers with that stuff. The joined pieces will be separated by the thickness of the tape, so you would probably see it on a continuous, unbroken surface. The strength of the bond is related to the surface area covered--if there's not enough it won't hold as well. The clear isn't as strong as the opaque/foamy tapes--the dealer or manufacturer can give you chapter, book and verse on how many inches of taped surface are needed to hold how many pounds of substrate together.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:21 pm
by Faye Malench
Was hoping to not invest in Hxtal right now - there's a large project planned over the winter but this is just a tiny join. There's a variety of adhesives here already including Dymax and Triolyse. I'd avoid the latter because I know it yellows. Unsure of Dymax. Wish it was configured to use the VHB tape since I have miles of it. I use it to secure large mirror frames to the backboard. Will report if I find something to work. Thanks.

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:44 pm
by Morganica
Well, DP-105 requires the applicator which costs a lot more than the adhesive. The thing I hate about most of these adhesives is the clock starts ticking the minute you breach the container. When I've been done in by an adhesive (i.e., the glass falls off the wall in a loud and embarrassing way)...it's almost always because I thought the adhesive was younger than it really was. So I get the HXTAL thing--I wish they'd sell little mini-vials of the stuff because a little goes a long way, and I've yet to come anywhere near using up the smallest HXTAL bottles before the aging worry set in.

You know, DP105 is very clear (from what I've seen so far, and if the broken piece is sitting on the base (i.e., you don't have shear forces to worry about) it'd probably work just fine. Here's the datasheet: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UuZjcFSLXTtnxfcLx46EVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=78690096751.PDF

Re: Good, not thick, adhesive for break repair?

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:25 am
by Bonnie Rubinstein
After looking into several products, I opted for Loctite E-30CL Epoxy. I know it may be alittle thicker than I want, but will apply it as thinly as possible.
I will post results.
Thanks for the discussion.