Lava Cloth samples

RobinE · Post by **RobinE** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:48 am

HI all:

Does anyone know where I can purchase small samples of Lava Cloth to test? CDV does sell at studio artist prices when you purchase a substantial amount of square footage - I'd like to do some testing before I purchase a large quantity.

Thanks
RobinE

Lisa W. · Post by **Lisa W.** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:03 am

Robin,
Have not used this yet but bookmarked it for the FUTURE.
Good Luck.
http://www.lavacloth.com/
Lisa W

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:10 pm

RobinE wrote:HI all:

Does anyone know where I can purchase small samples of Lava Cloth to test? CDV does sell at studio artist prices when you purchase a substantial amount of square footage - I'd like to do some testing before I purchase a large quantity.

Thanks
RobinE

Marty is also selling the material by the square foot... no need to make a huge investment.

Tony

scooter riegelsperger · Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:05 pm

WHAT DO YOU DO WITH LAVA CLOTH? I SUSPECT USING IT ON THE SHELF WITH GLASS ON TOP TO LEAVE PATTERN IN THE DOWN SIDE OF BASE GLASS. JUST CURIOUS.

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:12 pm

scooterr309 wrote:WHAT DO YOU DO WITH LAVA CLOTH? I SUSPECT USING IT ON THE SHELF WITH GLASS ON TOP TO LEAVE PATTERN IN THE DOWN SIDE OF BASE GLASS. JUST CURIOUS.

You got it. It has a much higher melting temperature than glass (~3000Â°) and the glass melts onto it transferring the texture of the weave into the glass... it doesn't stick to glass at normal firing temperatures and is reusible for about a dozen firings.

Marty at Centre DeVerre is selling the product. Click on his sponsor link above.

Tony

ps: Please don't write your messages in all caps. Common bulletin board practice considers all caps as shouting.

Tyler Frisby · Post by **Tyler Frisby** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:13 pm

It looks to me that the Glass picks up Lava Cloth when at fusing temperatures, I sent an email to them for more info, im sure after that post they'll be getting alot of that

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:16 pm

Tajai wrote:It looks to me that the Glass picks up Lava Cloth when at fusing temperatures, I sent an email to them for more info, im sure after that post they'll be getting alot of that

An example of the texture is below. The cloth comes in 3 different weaves and actually has 4 or 5 different textures depending on which side of the cloth you use. The texture can actually be quite sharp depending on the texture, so I always knock it down with a coarse diamond pad and sandblasting before slumping.

Tony

rodney · Post by **rodney** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:20 pm

HEY TONNNYYYYYYYY,,,,,i mean,,,ahhhhh excuse me mr. smith,,,,,

thanks for the info, im wondering what happens to this stuff after a dozen times, what is it, could you recycle it, does it turn to fluff,,,thanks,,,RODDDDNNNEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYY,,,ah, i mean rodney

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:25 pm

rodney wrote:HEY TONNNYYYYYYYY,,,,,i mean,,,ahhhhh excuse me mr. smith,,,,,

thanks for the info, im wondering what happens to this stuff after a dozen times, what is it, could you recycle it, does it turn to fluff,,,thanks,,,RODDDDNNNEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYY,,,ah, i mean rodney

Even you can be trained Rodney!!!

It does turn to fluff... actually, it starts to tear and shred after being peeled off the glass a number of times. I'm not sure how you would recyle it, but I'm sure someone will come up with a way.

Tony

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:28 pm

I'm talking Z-sil here, Does it compare, or is it the same as the Lava Cloth?

I only have experience with Z-sil...and am assuming this Lava cloth is a similar product....So take what I have to say here, knowing that these products may not be the same or even similar...

If it's the same thing, or similar to Z-sil, then it does leave a weave-like pattern on the back of your glass. It also leaches out the flux from your glass when taken to a full fuse. You can't fire the texture out because the flux has been leached from the surface of the glass. You can grind off that surface glass and then fire out to clean it up....

The pro's are that you can fire on it (Z-sil) time and time again, and if you are only firing once, and the texture isn't a problem for you...it's a real boon. The down side is that these fibers that the cloth are made of are silica fibers and do break down, particularly at the frayed edges and can become air borne. You will need to handle with great care and wear a respirator when manipulating the cloth.

It's worth exploring. Who wouldn't want a shelf liner that was a permanent, no maintenance separator?... I just found that Z-sil wasn't a good alternative to papers or simple primer for me, and the health risks from fibers and dust were the same. if Lava cloth is the same thing or similar to Z-sil...well.....

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:43 pm

Cynthia,

I'm not familiar with Z-sil but my guess is that it is a similar product.

My intention is not to use it as a replacement to thin-fire, ceramic fiber or a kiln-washed shelf, but as a way to create the fabric-like texture on glass... by all means, if anyone's intention is to have smooth glass, this isn't the product to use. As far as leaching out flux, I'm not sure if that is what is happening, but perhaps you understand the chemistry more than I. I do know that the texture is difficult to fire out.

Like any product that sheds fibers or particles, respiratory protection is suggested.

Tony

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:16 pm

Tony Smith wrote:Cynthia,

I'm not familiar with Z-sil but my guess is that it is a similar product.

My intention is not to use it as a replacement to thin-fire, ceramic fiber or a kiln-washed shelf, but as a way to create the fabric-like texture on glass... by all means, if anyone's intention is to have smooth glass, this isn't the product to use. As far as leaching out flux, I'm not sure if that is what is happening, but perhaps you understand the chemistry more than I. I do know that the texture is difficult to fire out.

Like any product that sheds fibers or particles, respiratory protection is suggested.

Tony

Sounds like they are similar...if not the same material.

I doubt that I understand the chemistry more than you, I'm not a chemist, but this is why I believe that the flux being leached out makes sense.

I fire pieces multiple times, and the texture shouldn't be an issue since I would fire out the texture in subsequent firings. Alas, the texture wouldn't fire out...Not even soften.

So I asked some questions on the board and the flux leaching answer was the one that made the most sense. It may very well be an erroneous (understanding) explanation, but here is why I believe it is accurate or at least is near the mark.

I could try to find the thread from a while back when I tried out this fabric. I'll search it out. Someone (can't recall who) stated that what was happening was that the flux in the glass was being leached out by the Z-sil fabric, and that was why the texture would not fire out even at high temps.

I did some tests a bit later to see what would happen by grinding some of the pieces to remove that layer of glass. I put others in the kiln with half of each test piece coated with a flux (textured side up). I used Spray A (lead) and Borax soln as fluxes on separate pieces. I fired them all in the same full fuse firing. I believe I went to 1500 with a hold (but I didn't keep notes). The glass was all BE opals. The pieces that I ground off the textured side of the glass all fired up smooth although they were badly devitrified in places. those with flux fired up more smoothly on the sides with the flux added, but still retained some texture (too much to be useful)... If I remember correctly, those with lead got smoother than those with borax. The sides of the glass without flux didn't soften in texture one little bit.

It wasn't the most scientific approach to finding out if indeed it was the flux that was leached out that caused the qualities of the glass to become resistant to having that texture fired out... But since there was a remarkable difference in the same pieces and how the texture fired out with added flux, vs no added flux...well, it made sense to me.

Regardless, I thought it was good info to have, thinking that it was possible that the glass could react the same way with the Lava Cloth, and that might be important to consider for those who might be firing that glass more than once...or hoped to lose the texture.

What do you think of the flux theory?

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:24 pm

Cynthia wrote:What do you think of the flux theory?

It's possible, but I'm no chemist either, so I'm not sure that you can have that kind of leaching below the glass transition temperature of the silica cloth.

As long as people know that the texture is pretty permanent, the actual mechanism is really less important.

Tony

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:40 pm

Flux-leach theory?

Definitely just a theory, but one I suggested on the original WGBB as a result of experimental work with different kilnwash and casting materials. (Canâ€™t find a link to the old archives).

The leach theory is supported by the widespread experience of others who find that kilnwash â€œwears outâ€

Paul Tarlow · Post by **Paul Tarlow** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:50 am

Ralph wrote:(Canâ€™t find a link to the old archives).

Top of the page, under the ads and site links are 8 blue buttons. The last one is "Old Archive"

Or you can just click this:

http://www.warmglass.com/cgi-bin/wgarchive.pl?search

- Paul

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:40 pm

Thanks Paul - I channelized right past that button. I'm running but seniority is catching up.

Ralph

quill · Post by **quill** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:42 pm

- I channelized right past that button.

It is scary how fast the English language is changing.

(Google-ing included.)

WarmGlass.com

Lava Cloth samples

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