sifting with a doily - WarmGlass.com

sifting with a doily

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Bert Weiss
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sifting with a doily

Postby Bert Weiss » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:14 pm

I was gifted with an intricately cut Chinese paper design, about a foot in diameter. I might like to do a sifted frit thing with it. I understand the basic ideas. The continuous paper where there is no frit provides a continuous pathway out for trapped air, when you cover the frit with clear glass. I believe there is a technique where you rub both glass and paper with aloe vera gel so the frit sticks to both. The trick becomes removing the paper without spilling the frit. I have been to the studio where this technique has been used for decades, Sydensticker glass, in Cape Cod. I have also had it explained to me by people who formerly worked there. I'd appreciate any pointers anybody can give me.

I wonder if I can turn it in to frisket with a spray of glue, and stipple liquid enamel with it? I picture this leaking too much.
Bert

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rosanna gusler
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby rosanna gusler » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:47 pm

before i tried anything i woulod stableize that paper with spray paint. something like krylon clear finish. lay it on some wax paper and coat/dry/flip/repeat. rosanna
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Morganica
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Morganica » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:02 pm

You could do it the other way around: Put down the doily, spray the area with spray adhesive and then sift powder over it, blow the rest away. Or spray the doily with some lacquer to make it harder, as Rosanna suggests, secure it to the glass and sandblast fairly deeply. Then you can sift powder over the top, fire it and grind it back.

Me, I'd probably embed the doily in clay, pull it out and make a relief mold out of the impression.
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Faye Malench
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Faye Malench » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:22 am

I would spritz the glass with adhesive or hairspray before laying the doily on. Quickly add the powdered glass and let it set a minute, but not long enough to fully dry. Carefully remove the doily - since the doily is dry on the top side, no loose powder will stick. The spaces with adhesive and powder will dry and then tip the whole works to get rid of excess powder.

If you place the doily first; spray adhesive; then sift the powder over it there is a lot of waste.

If you do as I suggest AND preserve the doily first as Rosanna suggest, you can use repeatedly.

Bert Weiss
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Bert Weiss » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:30 pm

Thanx all. Ain't collective wisdom grand!
Bert



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Valerie Adams
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Valerie Adams » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:41 pm

Faye Malench wrote:I would spritz the glass with adhesive or hairspray before laying the doily on. Quickly add the powdered glass and let it set a minute, but not long enough to fully dry. Carefully remove the doily - since the doily is dry on the top side, no loose powder will stick. The spaces with adhesive and powder will dry and then tip the whole works to get rid of excess powder.

If you place the doily first; spray adhesive; then sift the powder over it there is a lot of waste.

If you do as I suggest AND preserve the doily first as Rosanna suggest, you can use repeatedly.

Faye, I'm trying to visualize this and I must be missing something.

If you spray the entire surface with adhesive, then lay the doily down, isn't the adhesive that's under the doily going to still be sticky when you remove the doily? And as you tip the whole piece to get rid of the excess, won't the powder stick onto the previously covered areas? I can imagine that hairspray might dry enough not to allow this but my spray adhesive stays tacky, I believe.

Bert, I have some wonderful hand-cut Chinese paper works too; mine are practically tissue paper thin. How thick is your paper?

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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Babette (Shawn) » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:30 pm

I have stiffened stencils and paper by laying long pieces of stinger (straight) ontop and attaching with tape or a dab of tacky glue, or even museum putty. It makes a stiff frame that can be pinched with your fingers and lifted off after your frit has been sifted on. The disadvantage is you may have to go back and fill in a few spots where the stringer covered your pattern. The advantage is that you are not using glue that might build up and fill in small patterns and glues can stay damp and gooey for hours.
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Morganica
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Morganica » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:00 pm

Valerie Adams wrote:
Faye Malench wrote:I would spritz the glass with adhesive or hairspray before laying the doily on. Quickly add the powdered glass and let it set a minute, but not long enough to fully dry. Carefully remove the doily - since the doily is dry on the top side, no loose powder will stick. The spaces with adhesive and powder will dry and then tip the whole works to get rid of excess powder.

If you place the doily first; spray adhesive; then sift the powder over it there is a lot of waste.

If you do as I suggest AND preserve the doily first as Rosanna suggest, you can use repeatedly.

Faye, I'm trying to visualize this and I must be missing something.

If you spray the entire surface with adhesive, then lay the doily down, isn't the adhesive that's under the doily going to still be sticky when you remove the doily? And as you tip the whole piece to get rid of the excess, won't the powder stick onto the previously covered areas? I can imagine that hairspray might dry enough not to allow this but my spray adhesive stays tacky, I believe.

Bert, I have some wonderful hand-cut Chinese paper works too; mine are practically tissue paper thin. How thick is your paper?

I'll have to try this, Faye, but I'd think something similar--wouldn't there be just enough tackiness between paper and glass to give some resistance to removing the paper? Seems like something as flexible as paper would flex, dump the powder into the design and mess things up?
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Don Burt
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Don Burt » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:01 pm

If you have a silkscreen frame large enough to hold the doily, you can stretch the silkscreen frame with extra large mesh fabric, and sift powder over the doily through the fabric, and lift the screen away neatly when done. You could glue the doily to the fabric as the resist, or use the doily as a negative for a photo resist. But if you went to the trouble to make a photo resist, you'd probably just pull an ordinary screen print with glass paint.

Bert Weiss
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Bert Weiss » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:45 pm

Valerie, the paper is thin. Mine sit on a piece of white tissue in a plastic sleeve.

I think the key is finding a way to remove the mask and outsmart the frit. Some sort of framework, or reversal technique where you turn the whole thing upside down and the sticky keeps the frit on the base glass.
Bert



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Alexis Dinno
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Alexis Dinno » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:25 pm

Valerie Adams wrote:If you spray the entire surface with adhesive, then lay the doily down, isn't the adhesive that's under the doily going to still be sticky when you remove the doily? And as you tip the whole piece to get rid of the excess, won't the powder stick onto the previously covered areas? I can imagine that hairspray might dry enough not to allow this but my spray adhesive stays tacky, I believe.



Valerie,

I can't speak for her, but I read the combined suggestions as:

1. seal the template/doily/etc. with krylon or whatever

2. lay down template/doily/etc. onto the glass

3. spray glue/hairspray/whatever over the template/doily/etc.

4. sift a light layer of powder or fine frit over the stick glass-and-paper

5. gently lift the doily with glass stuck to it.

I suppose, that if the doily is made of material which will burn out close to clean, one could use the glass-coated doily to create a negative image with the same color of glass by fusing it to another piece (likely sandwich to the doily paper does not roll up as it chars).

Faye Malench
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Faye Malench » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:48 pm

Valerie, you are absolutely correct. It's straight-forward with hair-spray - everything would need to dry completely before dumping off the excess. I do the same with mica. I left out the type of spray adhesive that dries without tack over the course of an hour or so. It's a Krylon product but NOT the general all-purpose 7010. I have that on hand to read from the can. If I locate the other type, I will post. Hopefully I didn't lead anyone astray.

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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby S.TImmerman » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:24 am

"""1. seal the template/doily/etc. with krylon or whatever

2. lay down template/doily/etc. onto the glass

3. spray glue/hairspray/whatever over the template/doily/etc.

4. sift a light layer of powder or fine frit over the stick glass-and-paper

5. gently lift the doily with glass stuck to it."""""


After you spray on top of the doily (before adding frit) I'd remove the doiley. The doiley will (or should ) mask the glass

Now just sprinkle the powder and shake off the extra


Or, am I missing someing?

dawnsud
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby dawnsud » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:16 pm

Two of my students did the hairspray thru the doily idea in a class this weekend. One did snowflakes from the old technique of folding a piece of paper in 8ths and cutting notches. We put the template down, sprayed, sifted fine frit, waited for it to dry. When we lifted the template, the frit on the template lifted up with it and the part on the hairspray stayed "glued" on the base glass. I'm looking forward to seeing how the fuses turn out.
Take care.
Dawn

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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby KaCe » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:51 am

This post couldn't be more timely for me. I'm working out my magless idea and have been working with a new (for me) technique using frit in water packed into a flexible mold and frozen. BUT the idea of cutting my own pattern and making them easily really appeals to me.

Earlier someone said ain't it great to have the use of collective minds... I agree whole heartedly. This group is great. Now tomorrow I'm going to work this out. Gotta get more fuel for my space heater... it's cold here and I have a lot to work on tomorrow.

KaCe =D>

Bert Weiss
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby Bert Weiss » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:00 pm

dawnsud wrote:Two of my students did the hairspray thru the doily idea in a class this weekend. One did snowflakes from the old technique of folding a piece of paper in 8ths and cutting notches. We put the template down, sprayed, sifted fine frit, waited for it to dry. When we lifted the template, the frit on the template lifted up with it and the part on the hairspray stayed "glued" on the base glass. I'm looking forward to seeing how the fuses turn out.
Dawn, take note that the design factor that makes this work is the edges. If you were to sift frit on in a pattern that filled the perimeter with frit, it would trap gasses and cause a plethora of problems. If the doily goes edge to edge, the doily provides a maze of pathways for gasses to leave and get squeezed out as the glasses soften.
Bert



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dawnsud
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Re: sifting with a doily

Postby dawnsud » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:54 pm

Bert, I'll remember that for future projects. These were just simple 1 layer holiday ornaments. We just tack fused them. But I see what you mean about paths to the edges.
Take care.

Dawn


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