Density of Spectravue white?

[Buttercup]

I'm looking for a white that can be selectively applied to 'veil' the back of some art glass pieces to be leaded up into panels. As they will be backlit it will be necessary to diffuse the light source. I don't want to use an acrylic sheet behind them or sandblast them as the panels will be leaded. (Did that once and the putty leached an oily stain onto the sandblasting and I had to re-do it.)

I’ve read some posts about Ferro Spectravue on the board and as I can't get the range of colours I want at short notice thought cathedral glass with a painted and low-fired back might work. There is quite a large area so I'm not contemplating using Reusche Obscuring White and wondered if the Ferro Spectravue that fires at 400℉ can be applied in varying densities. That is, can it be applied so that it will be translucent or is it a total whiteout?

Hope someone can help with this. Jen

[Bert Weiss]

Jen

With both vitreous and organic colors, white is the color that is most easy to make opaque. You may want to look at a frosted Spectravue as a diffuser that will let more light through. Sandblasting may also be an alternative. In the vitreous color world, there is a material called satin etch. It mimics sandblasting without the finger print problem. Satin etch is essentially a clear frit that fires hot enough to stick, but not hot enough to gloss or flow. They may add some alumina to it for added tooth.

[Morganica]

I'm not going to be of much help with the Spectravue, and you don't want to sandblast or etch but...one alternative: If you can use fusible glasses, you might sift white powder onto what will be the back of the glass, and fuse it flat. A light coat of white powder becomes translucent, not opaque.

I do that all the time when I'm layering transparent colors for exactly the problem you have--I want a shade that I can only get in cathedral/transparent class. It gives me the color but still lets some light come in. I precisely control the level of translucency throughout--fade it in the center to complete transparency, make it completely opaque at the edges, etc. I usually make a piece larger than the desired dimensions, then cut it to the exact size.

I just use plain old Bullseye white, but it might be intriguing to try this technique with their opaline. Depending on the heatwork levels opaline can shade anywhere from nearly clear to a medium-density white. Since you're also controlling the thickness of powder at any given point in the glass, you'd get a lot of precision. And, actually, a thick layer of clear powder will generate so many bubbles that it in effect becomes a frosted surface.

Anyway--if you can use a fusible glass in this project, it's probably worth experimenting a bit.

[Buttercup]

Bert, thank you for that. I’ll look into Frosted Spectravue and Satin Etch. Unfortunately I don’t have time to do any extensive experimenting and will first have to obtain the product. As it’s the weekend I can’t contact Ferro Australia till Monday. I have downloaded some of their info about methods of application but can’t find info on firing temps.

Cynthia, thanks for that suggestion. This commission has a very short turnaround time, especially considering its square footage so the idea of a product that could be screened or sprayed on and fired at 400℉ was appealing as I’ll also be doing painting and firing on the viewing side of the glass and don’t want to take any risks with over-firing.

What has occurred to me considering these suggestions is that I do have some really old glass etching cream. I’m going to test that now with some cathedral glass and try it over light and see what it looks like. Thank you both so much for the input and inspiring an alternative, if as yet untried, solution. It’s much appreciated.

I’ll follow up with Ferro tomorrow, too. Jen

[Buttercup]

Made a couple of samples, but not the look I'm after and definitely too risky for my liking. The instruction sheet packed with it said to wear plastic gloves and didn't mention any type of neutralizer. That sent up a warning flare but I pressed on cautiously, with latex gloves, face mask and safety glasses with bicarb ready in a plastic container, and later looked up the MSDS on line. Tomorrow it's going to a hazardous waste depot. It's not the children-over-twelve-years-old friendly product I'd used a couple of times in NA with float glass. That left a whitish surface on the glass. This stuff just slightly greyed the surface and left me glad I escaped unscathed.

[Peter Angel]

I once fired some glass on whiting sprinked onto a kiln shelf.

I unintentionally fired too high and the back of the glass became finely veiled.

The glass was definitely clear system 96 but I don't recall the firing schedule.

Perhaps someone else might know something about this.

Peter

[Jerrwel]

Would a layer of a streakie glasshttp://shop.bullseyeglass.com/sheet-gla ... -2-in.html be possible? Maybe even adhered with UV-activated glue after the leading is done to fill only the opening in the lead? This might allow you some time for getting supplies and experimenting too as the piece is being leaded.

[Bert Weiss]

I once fired some glass on whiting sprinked onto a kiln shelf.

I unintentionally fired too high and the back of the glass became finely veiled.

The glass was definitely clear system 96 but I don't recall the firing schedule.

Perhaps someone else might know something about this.

Peter

That is funny Peter. Generally you want to avoid the white "scum". But you have a good point that it might work to your advantage. I am currently experimenting how to get a good diffusion layer beneath a vivid painting, and fire polish edges, on float glass, in a single slump firing. This is quite a challenge.

[Buttercup]

Peter, that’s too risky for me to rely on for the solution as I’ve had overfired glass go wavy and who know what colour changes might happen to art glass not meant for high temps. Given the square footage and the time constraints I’m dealing with I want to take the fewest risks possible. So much can go wrong just with the painting and firing that I don’t want to add anything else high temp. into the equation as I won’t be using any fusing glass, unless incidentally because the colour happens to be right.

Thanks, Jerry. I looked at the link you sent but I’d like to solve the problem before the panels are leaded up. I had considered plating in the traditional manner but want to avoid having the panels become too heavy and therefore need more than usual reinforcing. If it does come down to plating I’ll look at sandblasting some 2 mil.

I’m still waiting to hear back from Ferro about the other products Bert suggested. Meanwhile has anyone had any success in controlling the density of Spectravue? I really like the 400 F low fire option if it will work.

[david n]

Have you considered BE 243? You will have to fire it, but it comes in 2mm or 3mm sheet. I use the frit regularly and I always backlight my work. The light passes through nicely.

[Bert Weiss]

Peter, that’s too risky for me to rely on for the solution as I’ve had overfired glass go wavy and who know what colour changes might happen to art glass not meant for high temps. Given the square footage and the time constraints I’m dealing with I want to take the fewest risks possible. So much can go wrong just with the painting and firing that I don’t want to add anything else high temp. into the equation as I won’t be using any fusing glass, unless incidentally because the colour happens to be right.

Thanks, Jerry. I looked at the link you sent but I’d like to solve the problem before the panels are leaded up. I had considered plating in the traditional manner but want to avoid having the panels become too heavy and therefore need more than usual reinforcing. If it does come down to plating I’ll look at sandblasting some 2 mil.

I’m still waiting to hear back from Ferro about the other products Bert suggested. Meanwhile has anyone had any success in controlling the density of Spectravue? I really like the 400 F low fire option if it will work.

Density is all about thickness of application. You can thin it out with water or alcohol. You could try and spray it, that is generally the way to get the thinnest or the thickest application.

[Buttercup]

Thanks David. I'm trying to avoid fusing temps as I'm also painting and firing and want to keep the weight down. Cynthia suggested the BE frits, too. Those suggestions would no doubt work but I'm trying not to complicate it too much because of the size of the job and the timeframe.That's why the low fire Spectravue appealed. It's closer to a traditional result than any cold coating would be. (Also, I can't walk into a supplier and select BE here. I am very close to a supplier of a wide variety of other art glass, including Spectrum and Uroborus Sys.96).

Ferro still has not responded to my call and there's no local email address. They seem to have a complaints hotline. Not really where I want to start but might be able to get an email address.

I see Bert has responded to my question about controlling density by spraying it on with water or alcohol. Thank you Bert. Now I just have to get my hands on some. I know I can get it shipped from NA but will try locally first. Thanks again for the input. Jen

[Buttercup]

Ferro Oz in now on the job.......

[Bert Weiss]

Ferro Oz in now on the job.......

With any luck they will send you a sample that will accomplish your job. This board has been a very good source of recommendation for Ferro.

[Buttercup]

Thanks Bert. I'll look forward to that, meanwhile I'll follow up on an Australian company recommended by Ferro here.
I do have the name correct, do I? Or is it something similar? Jen

[Bert Weiss]

Thanks Bert. I'll look forward to that, meanwhile I'll follow up on an Australian company recommended by Ferro here.
I do have the name correct, do I? Or is it something similar? Jen

I thought you were right, then I googled it and this is the Ferro page. http://www.ferro.com/Our+Products/Color ... ecTruLite/

If you ever need help figuring out how to use the SpecTruLite, ask Sean Weir whose name is at the bottom of the page. Sean is one of the most knowledgeable people in the company. He has taught me a lot of great stuff. When I first met him, a long time ago, he worked with mediums for all sorts of products. Now he works with the organics.

It is quite possible that Ferro will direct you to another company that buys and resells their products. Here in the USA, the product manager for Sunshine series will direct people to buy from Brad Walker at Warm Glass. (He told me that last week...)

[Buttercup]

Yep, that's the product I had already found that on the Ferro website and the one the local person spoke about. I looked up the company he referred me to but couldn't see it on their site so I'll give them a call.

Thanks for clarifying that, Bert. I thought it odd that he didn't know of it. I'll let him know. Thanks again, Jen

[Peter Angel]

Jen, these products are based on polyster, epoxy and acrylic.

I recall that some of these materials degrade (become brittle and chalky) in sunlight.

If you do speak to someone from Ferro, find out about the permanence of these materials.

Pete

[Buttercup]

Good point Peter. I'll ask that question. This will be in a lightbox, not in UV exposure but should check that. Thank you.

[Bert Weiss]

Jen, these products are based on polyster, epoxy and acrylic.

I recall that some of these materials degrade (become brittle and chalky) in sunlight.

If you do speak to someone from Ferro, find out about the permanence of these materials.

Pete

I am not aware of this problem. These colors were designed for bottle decoration that doesn't require 1000ºF and subsequent annealing. They are more vivid colors than their vitreous counterparts. I first encountered them many years ago on red bottles at Pier One. The color red was not a typical glass color. That was an all over coating. They are also used on liquor bottle decoration. There is a newer line, called Expressions (I think) used for decals that can be applied to any surface that can withstand 400ªF, like motorcycle gas tanks.