Tempering Bullseye Glass - WarmGlass.com

Tempering Bullseye Glass

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helenrudy
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Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby helenrudy » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:39 pm

Can 1/4 in or 1/2 in thick fused bullseye glass be tempered to meet code requirement for architectural installations? :?

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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Brad Walker » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:57 pm

helenrudy wrote:Can 1/4 in or 1/2 in thick fused bullseye glass be tempered to meet code requirement for architectural installations? :?


Only if you can find a temperer willing to do the work. Most won't because of fear of breakage during the process.

helenrudy
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby helenrudy » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:58 pm

Have you ever used Flex tec from his glass?

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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Brad Walker » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:04 pm

helenrudy wrote:Have you ever used Flex tec from his glass?


No, but I've heard very good reports about it.

helenrudy
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby helenrudy » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:10 pm

Yes. the videos seem to show it works.
Thanks
Helen

Rick Wilton
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Rick Wilton » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:23 pm

Art glass as a general rule cannot be tempered. Even a small bubble will cause the piece to explode after tempering. Even float glass that is tempered all the time cannot be tempered if you are fusing anything substantial to it.
Rick Wilton

Bert Weiss
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Bert Weiss » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:30 pm

Wissmach makes glasses that can be routinely tempered. When Schott made Artista, it was temperable. I believe that internal bubbles can cause problems during tempering. Bullseye glass tends to have internal bubbles.

The best way I know to make art glass in to safety glass is by resin laminating. This is a process best done by somebody who has gone through the learning curve. The result, pre-learning curve, is a nasty puddle of epoxy on the floor. You must use a low contraction resin formula.
Bert

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Rick Wilton
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Rick Wilton » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:39 pm

yes wissmach does "offer" a temperable art glass.

http://www.wissmachglass.com/pdfs/Tempe ... tGlass.pdf

They give almost ZERO info regarding it ie. can you actually fuse pieces together? or just temper the colored stock sheets.

Even then good luck getting a tempering company to run it through their million dollar machine. The risk reward ratio is too high for them, I've heard of glass melting to the quartz rollers and wrecking them.
Rick Wilton

Bert Weiss
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Bert Weiss » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:11 pm

Rick Wilton wrote:yes wissmach does "offer" a temperable art glass.

http://www.wissmachglass.com/pdfs/Tempe ... tGlass.pdf

They give almost ZERO info regarding it ie. can you actually fuse pieces together? or just temper the colored stock sheets.

Even then good luck getting a tempering company to run it through their million dollar machine. The risk reward ratio is too high for them, I've heard of glass melting to the quartz rollers and wrecking them.


Schott used to claim that you could fuse frits or thin sheets to thick sheets, and then temper it. I am skeptical. I have painted on float glass with onglaze colors, and metallic lustres and tempered it, successfully. I'll guess that you can fuse frits on the Wissmach and temper it. You do have to be careful about strong color differences to avoid thermal shock.

I'm pretty sure that you want to time the glass quite a bit shorter than for float, as the slump temp is about 80º F lower than float glass. I have spoken with Wissmach about their temperable glass. All you need to do is call to get some help.
Bert



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Tom Fuhrman
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Tom Fuhrman » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:43 pm

turn it into laminated panels and forget the tempering. IMHO laminating is better and safer than tempering anyway,

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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Bert Weiss » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:45 pm

Tom Fuhrman wrote:turn it into laminated panels and forget the tempering. IMHO laminating is better and safer than tempering anyway,
I don't disagree Tom, unless there are bolts and nuts involved, at which point only tempered works.
Bert



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Jerrwel
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Jerrwel » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:19 am

Bert Weiss wrote:
Tom Fuhrman wrote:turn it into laminated panels and forget the tempering. IMHO laminating is better and safer than tempering anyway,
I don't disagree Tom, unless there are bolts and nuts involved, at which point only tempered works.

OK, Tom and Bert: Glad you two had a nice conversation here but can you expand on your comments i.e. how is laminating done, and what are the nuts and bolts of the nuts and bolts?
Jerry

Rick Wilton
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Rick Wilton » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:48 am

the nut and bolts of nuts and bolts is just that

Nuts and bolts.

Literally where you drill a hole through the glass and bolt it to something. A wall, a railing, baillister etc.

As for laminating..... well that is a whole other animal. I have done it and on occasion do it.

I'm not going to give advice on how to do it, as I don't recommend people try it without professional experience first.

There are at least three completely different approaches to it.
Rick Wilton

Brad Walker
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Brad Walker » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:37 am

Jerrwel wrote: i.e. how is laminating done


The basic process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminated_glass Googling laminated glass will give you more basic info. Lots of videos on YouTube also.

Do it yourself (on a small scale, just to see the process, not recommended commercially): http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Yo ... ENANIGANS/

Unless you want to go down another learning curve, it's easiest to just hire someone to laminate your glass for you.

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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Bert Weiss » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:45 am

The overview of resin laminating is that you create a space between the sheets with spacers or VHB tape. Then you seal the hell out of the perimeter, leaving a space to add resin and one to let air escape as it fills with resin. The resin really wants to leak out, so the seal has to be perfect. You use a tilt table working various angles to get the resin to fill and the air to escape. Like Rick says, this is not a detailed set of directions, but an overview of what is done. This process is one that requires less specialized equipment than the other alternatives, which involve vacuum, pressure, and heat.

I figured out how to do this and my conclusion was to find a professional to do it for me. I have done that. I once created 2 kilncast panels, that were fired one on top of the other (with a nonstick interlayer). I sent them out for laminating. When he was done, they met Florida Hurricane standards for a front door glass panel.

Most resins on the market are not appropriate for laminating art glasses. You must use a special low contraction resin. The company that did mine only uses that formula, because it is less prone to cracking any glass. I know of one company, Bendheim, that knows how to cure UV resin along with art glasses.

As to the nuts and bolts, annealed glass will easily crack when you tighten a nut on a bolt. I have done shows where I didn't bother to temper10mm glass for my bolted together display. (I would most definitely temper anything I sold to a client). Yes, I managed to break the glass while setting it up. After you temper glass, it can withstand the pressure of tightening a bolt through a drilled hole, lined with a vinyl spacer. I have seen buildings where giant expanses of glasses are bolted together, and can handle wind loads.

That said, I have seen really thick annealed glass countertops drilled and bolted in place. In this case you must be really careful not to tighten the bolts too much. It will break relatively easily.
Bert



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Jerrwel
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby Jerrwel » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:03 pm

Jerrwel wrote:OK, Tom and Bert: Glad you two had a nice conversation here but can you expand on your comments i.e. how is laminating done, and what are the nuts and bolts of the nuts and bolts?

Thanks everyone, that was the level of information I was looking for. Just wanted to understand better what you were writing about.
Jerry

helenrudy
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Re: Tempering Bullseye Glass

Postby helenrudy » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:11 pm

Wow. Thank you all a great discussion. Helen


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