1/8 Inch Fiber Paper

[G's]

Does anyone know or have an opinion regarding the best brand of 1/8 inch fiber paper? I am looking for the sturdiest and most durable to do some kiln insulation. I hope to get the best brand that will last the longest.
Thanks,
Ginny

[Marty]

1/8 is way too thin for kiln insulation, it'll tear and disintegrate. Try 1" blanket.

[Bert Weiss]

Fiber paper is a terrible choice. It is held together with an organic binder. After this binder burns off, it is completely weak and useless.

You can use Chinese 1/2" blanket, which is relatively inexpensive. I have found the Chinese blankets to be acceptable quality. Unifrax makes the thinnest blanket available, in 1/4". I love this blanket and use it for all sorts of things, including a firing surface. Again, the catch is that you have to buy a case.

And yes I agree with Marty, what are you trying to insulate?

[Judd]

McGill's has some interesting things. In addition to blanket, they have all kinds of crazy crap.

http://www.mcgillswarehouse.com/fiber-b ... er-blanket

[G's]

Fiber paper is a terrible choice. It is held together with an organic binder. After this binder burns off, it is completely weak and useless.

You can use Chinese 1/2" blanket, which is relatively inexpensive. I have found the Chinese blankets to be acceptable quality. Unifrax makes the thinnest blanket available, in 1/4". I love this blanket and use it for all sorts of things, including a firing surface. Again, the catch is that you have to buy a case.

And yes I agree with Marty, what are you trying to insulate?

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. I have been talking with Arnold at Paragon regarding some creative options I may have to stop kiln dust from falling on my pieces during firing. I wanted to try to retrofit my Ovation 10 lid with fiber, but I have not been able to find a fiber suitable for this size of lid without having troublesome seams. He mentioned that they had a kiln a few years ago that they stuck 1/8 inch fiber paper on the top (lid) with kiln cement - covering the elements. He said this has held up very well and the owner of that kiln is still successfully using the kiln and has for many years. I am hopeful this will stop my problem with kiln dust and will hold up for some time. That is why I am looking for the best quality 1/8 inch fiber paper for this application.

[Marty]

Arnold's a straight shooter but that sounds dicey to me. I'd go the vacuum route first- get a soft brush for your (HEPA) vacuum and carefully and thoroughly vacuum the lid, the walls and the floor before loading the kiln. Let the lid down easy.

[Bert Weiss]

In order to encase elements in fiber, they must be engineered with an appropriate wattage per square inch of surface area of the element wire. Chances are the elements are designed to be in a groove. If the element in the groove design is on the conservative side, it could work. I would probably choose a woven silica cloth before a fiber paper. Even this material is not all that stable.

Paragon does make some kilns with vacuum formed fiber with embedded elements. I think this is the way to go for kiln construction.

[G's]

Thank you for your input! Bert, I have also purchased a Paragon Fusion 10 that has a fiber lid and I like it very much. My goal is to still be able to use my Paragon Ovation (Large Oval Kiln) for my big glass projects. I've done all of the remedies (vacuum lid before every firing, used the lid sealant from Paragon, stuffed crack with fiber) and have not had good success. So, I'm on to a Plan D of some sort...

[Brad Walker]

I have been talking with Arnold at Paragon regarding some creative options I may have to stop kiln dust from falling on my pieces during firing. I wanted to try to retrofit my Ovation 10 lid with fiber, but I have not been able to find a fiber suitable for this size of lid without having troublesome seams. He mentioned that they had a kiln a few years ago that they stuck 1/8 inch fiber paper on the top (lid) with kiln cement - covering the elements. He said this has held up very well and the owner of that kiln is still successfully using the kiln and has for many years. I am hopeful this will stop my problem with kiln dust and will hold up for some time. That is why I am looking for the best quality 1/8 inch fiber paper for this application.

Arnold has mentioned that option to me before, but I've never been able to figure out exactly why it would work well or exactly how to make it work. But, as Marty said, Arnold is a straight shooter and is easy to work with. I would ask him for advice on the fiber paper that would work best and would also ask if he can give you the name of the owner of the kiln that made the repair using this approach. If the kiln has held up so well and the owner is happy with the results, then you'd probably want to do what they did, using the paper they used.

[G's]

Thank You Brad for your response. I just sent an email to Arnold with questions as well as a copy of your comment. Perhaps he'll join our discussion!
Ginny

[Arnold Howard]

Arnold has mentioned that option to me before, but I've never been able to figure out exactly why it would work well or exactly how to make it work. But, as Marty said, Arnold is a straight shooter and is easy to work with. I would ask him for advice on the fiber paper that would work best and would also ask if he can give you the name of the owner of the kiln that made the repair using this approach. If the kiln has held up so well and the owner is happy with the results, then you'd probably want to do what they did, using the paper they used.

Thank you, Brad and Marty. About 10 years ago we made a series of glass kilns that had a plunge groove in the lid. We covered the inner lid surface, including the elements, with a sheet of ceramic fiber paper. The paper extended out to the edges where the lid meets the kiln walls but not beyond that point. (The paper did not enter the area where the lid and walls overlap.) We glued the fiber paper to the lid with small spots of kiln cement.

When we started this design, one of my friends saw the fiber paper on a Janus-1613 lid and said, "That won't last." In spite of her reservations, she took home that Janus-1613. Well, only recently she called and said, "Remember that fiber paper? It's starting to burn through"--after years of regular use.

We discontinued the fiber paper lid technique shortly after because the next batch of fiber paper that we received burned through prematurely even though it came from the same supplier. I don't know who the supplier was. Even if I did, they wouldn't know which fiber paper to recommend.

So, I know it is possible to cover the inner lid surface and elements with fiber paper. The paper must be porous enough to dissipate the heat from the elements and durable enough to last for many firings. I don't know which brand of paper to use, though.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / http://www.paragonweb.com