system 90 96 compatibility - WarmGlass.com

system 90 96 compatibility

This is the main board for discussing general techniques, tools, and processes for fusing, slumping, and related kiln-forming activities.

Moderators: Tony Smith, Brad Walker

Post Reply
Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

system 90 96 compatibility

Postby Lyn » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:22 pm

I used a strip of spectrum (DGS14) coe 96 dichroic for some pendants and capped it with bulleye clear coe 90. They came out very nice looking but now I'm concerned about problems in the future. Anyone made this mistake before?

AVLucky
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: PA

Postby AVLucky » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:08 pm

Yep. About 5 years ago when I first started fusing, I would put anything together just to see what would happen. Some things have survived intact all of this time, (while still showing significant stress through polarized filters) but others didn't even last 2 days. You might get lucky and not have it break, but I would consider it something to keep only as an interesting experiment. Definitely don't try to sell it. If you don't have a stressometer or polarized filters, I would recommend getting them for reference. That way you can actually see what's happening between the two pieces of glass.
On a side note, some of the early anything-goes experiments looked even cooler after they cracked. I did a piece that used a bullseye base with small glass seed beads fused all over it. In about a month's time, all of the beads had developed little circular incompatibility cracks. It looks neat, and in 5 years none of them have popped out, but I still wouldn't try to sell it knowing what could potentially happen due to careless craftsmanship.

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

Postby Lyn » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:05 pm

Thanks for the not so good news, would the stressometer or polorized filters indicate a current and/or future problem?

AVLucky
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: PA

Postby AVLucky » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:35 pm

What they will show you is stress between incompatible pieces of glass. Most of the books on glass fusing should show you an example of how to check for this. It's fairly simple. I use two pieces of plastic that have a polarized coating. Holding the pieces up to the light, or sitting them on a light box, if you stack them one on top of the other, and rotate the top one, you should be able to find a spot where hardly any light passes through. Now put your suspicious glass in between the two filters. If there are whitish areas around the edges where incompatible glass is fused together(especially the corners), you've got stress.
Now, in the situation you described, it sounds like your clear cap is probably the same size as the piece of dichroic underneath it, in which case it would be a little harder to see stress. If you overlapped, say, a quarter inch square of system 96 with a one inch square of bullseye, and fired it, you'd be able to view the stress much more clearly when you tested it. That's not to say that it would have more stress than your pieces, just that it would be easier to tell.
Most places that sell fusing supplies probably carry the stressometer, but I thought it was overpriced for being essentially a big flashlight with two filters. I bought my polarized filters from http://www.polarization.com in a little kit that came with minerals that change color when you view them through the filters. So I got what I needed, plus a geology lesson to boot! That site also carries polarized plastic by the sheet, but I found it to be too flimsy, with a tendency to curl up on itself. It might be okay if you made little cardboard frames for it, though.
Like I said earlier, fused glass with stress in it can go on to live a long, unbroken life, but more often than not, those two uncompatible pieces will fight to get away from each other. Cracks might show up in a week, or a month, or a year. I had an accident last year where a piece of float glass got mixed up with some system 96 clear, and over the month-long period it took to completely shatter, pieces would violently jump apart as it sat on the table. :shock: You'd hear a fairly loud TINK and go over to find a chunk that had flown several inches from the mass of the piece. It was like a little time bomb.

The bottom line is, if you're going to fuse with 96 and 90 in the same studio, keep them far away from each other, and mark everything, especially scraps. An ultra fine sharpie is good for that. Don't use a paint pen (the kind you have to shake). They mark well, but if you don't clean off the glass thoroughly, the marks will get fired in.

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

Postby Lyn » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:02 pm

Wow thanks for all the information, My husband had asked if the glass would do anything really dangerous if incompatable and I really hadn't heard about anything but cracks. Flying bits of glass, yikes! It was just one strip of spectrum dicroic but I also have nonfusable spectrum that I fused some poinsettas with at christmas on the same table and we do use small bits of glass. So a through cleanup is required. I'm going to Alpine today I'll see if they have something to test for stress. I'll get to that geology site soon. Thankyou very much, this site is extreamly helpful. Lyn
Happy Valentines day I'd post my mistake except my scanner decided friday the 13th was a good day to refuse to work too.

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

Postby Lyn » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:05 pm

AVlucky, Anywhere to see your work? Lyn

AVLucky
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: PA

Postby AVLucky » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:51 pm

My work has changed quite a bit recently, so I am still reconstructing my website right now. As soon as it's ready, I'll have the link with my profile.

Also, the flying incompatible glass was a six inch square tile. I've never seen any incompatible jewelry-size pieces do that, although they almost always develop cracks.
Once you get your stress-testing stuff, it might be worth your while to try some of your non-fusible spectrum glass with the system 96. I have a bunch of old spectrum cathedral glass that works just fine. To set up a compatibility test piece, cut 2 clear blanks (of 96) the same size, place little pieces of the colors you want to test in between them, and fuse everything together. After they're out of the kiln, you can test them the way I described before. If it's your first time doing this, it might be a good idea to put in a test color of glass that you already know is tested compatible, and one that you know is definitely not. That way, you can really see the difference between what's stressed and what's not. Good Luck!

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

which COE to choose?

Postby Lyn » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:47 pm

Thanks for the reply.
Folks at Alpine and fusers at Blue Dolphin Stained Glass looked at the pendants and felt that the Pendants being small defered the problem of incompatibility and thought they would be alright. Did not use the stressometer however.
They do have an interesting artical on the Alpine website by Bill Renolds about system 96 glass, explaining "long" and "short" glass, firing schedule for less bubbles, and more, I found it very interesting. (Its in the area with COE 96 frits)
I chose 90 only because I had a few sq. feet of it from way in the past.
Now I'm only 10 sq. feet into 90 COE and wondering if it was the right choice? More colors with Bullseye , more research with Spectrum? How about cutting ease? Use both and keep them apart? I have a very small work area so that one is hard for me.

Jackie Beckman
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Postby Jackie Beckman » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:39 pm

more research with Spectrum?



No, no, no - not necessarily. Besides, there are some absolute differences of opinion between what Gill says in that article and what Bullseye's research has shown. I prefer to not mix glass in my studio and have chosen to use 90COE, but many people are happy with 96 as well. I say stick with one - whichever one you like the best. You'll have to play around a little with both to see what that is, I suppose.

Jackie

Nancy Juhasz
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 10:10 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Nancy Juhasz » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:51 am

Hi Lyn, What is the URL for the article by Gil Reynolds? Thanks Nanc

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

Postby Lyn » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:57 am

http://www.alpineglass.com/shop/category.php/id/288/

above is the page, with an active "click here" like below

System 96 Frit - COE 96
Why System 96?
Click here to find out.

Nancy Juhasz
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 10:10 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Nancy Juhasz » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:16 am

Thanks Lyn. You know I was there but clicked everywhere except there. Must have been to late. Nanc

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

Postby Lyn » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:08 am

Gary from Alpine online had a hard time finding it to show me. It was moved from the 1st page on dicro.

Terry Ow-Wing
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:21 pm
Location: San Francisco, Ca.
Contact:

Postby Terry Ow-Wing » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:46 pm

Once upon a time during my glass blowing days (non bullseye glass) our instructor told our class about a woman that had to declare bankruptcy because due to incompatible glass all her pieces were cracking and people were returning all of her work....... :shock:

Just as an experiment I encased small seed (tiny) beads into glass and even though they were really tiny crackes developed the next day. :oops:

-don't mix...glass will be simpler

Terry O.
Terry Ow-Wing Designs
Kilnformed and Lampworked Glass Art
http://GlassArt.weebly.com
Image

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

Postby Lyn » Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:23 pm

Thanks Terry,
I'm being very careful not to mix glass. Heres some pendants I've done. I was just looking around this morning to see if anyone is doing etching on glass. Didn't find any.
http://community.webshots.com/user/lynfeu
Lyn

DonMcClennen
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:09 pm
Location: Ontario

Postby DonMcClennen » Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:36 pm

Lyn...........I don't know where you got the idea Spectrum is stronger on research than Bullseye
"The Glassman"

Lyn
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:42 am
Location: Ramona, CA.
Contact:

Postby Lyn » Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:05 pm

Ontariodon,
It must have been someone at Alpine or in that artical, it was posted as a question. Do we know? Is there anyway to find out?
Lyn


Post Reply

Return to “Techniques and Tools”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests

Warm Glass

2575 Old Glory Road, Suite 700
Suite 700
Clemmons, NC 27012
Phone: (336) 712 8003
Email: wg@warmglass.com

cron