Re-phrased Paragon kiln question

[JenniferB]

Over the weekend I asked if anyone had a Paragon front-loading Janus 24 multipurpose kiln but got no answers. Perhaps I should have asked for advice on buying a relatively tall, front loading glass kiln (any brand) instead. I'd like to make some tall handkerchief vases as well as some drop-out vessels. My 9" top-loading kiln is just not tall enough. Does anyone have a tall kiln they like and would recommend? I understand Paragon will be raising their prices next week so I'm trying to reach a decision before then. Any help would be appreciated.

Jennifer

[Yardic Glassworks]

I have a Paragon GL24ADTSD which is a front loader, but does not do the higher temps as does the Janus24. It was my first larger kiln and still is my favorite. Lots of room, easy to load and easy to peek. The down side is that you cannot easily build in the kiln. I use my top loader for that. All of my kilns are Paragons, so cannot speak to other brands. Tim

[Bert Weiss]

I don't care much for my front loading kiln. You just can't get your nose placed over the glass to see what is going on. I don't like moving a shelf in to the kiln after loading the glass up. A front loader is best for combing, or other processes that require reaching inside to do stuff.

I seldom recommend side fired pottery kilns for glass, but for your application, the side heat will help pull the glass downwards.

I have never seen an example of what I think would be the best kiln design, which is about 24" deep and with both roof and floor elements. I like the bell style best, followed by a clamshell. If I design a clam, it would have the hinges extended away from the kiln, so when it opens, there is more space for air to flow all around. I would also make the clam with equal space on top and bottom.

[Brad Walker]

If you just want more height for drop-outs and handkerchief vases, then a front loading kiln will work fine. If, as Bert says, you want to make more complicated pieces or build pieces in the kiln, then a front loader is not the best choice. A clamshell or top loader works best for situations where you may need to straighten up the pieces after loading and that configuration also works well for drop-outs and handkerchief vases.

Are you just wanting more height, or are you also wanting to fire to a higher temperature than normal fusing temps? If you just want more height, there are lots of 14" top loading or clamshell kilns available that I would pick before an dual media kiln like the Janus. Dual purpose kilns suffer from what I call "toaster oven syndrome" -- a toaster oven doesn't toast as well as a toaster and it doesn't broil meat as well as an oven, but it's great for heating pizza. If you're not too demanding in terms of the kind of work you make, then a ceramic/glass kiln will work; if your requirements are more demanding, then you're probably better off buying a kiln for ceramics and a kiln for glass.

And one more thought: if all you want to make are drop-outs and handkerchief vases, and the height is really important to you, then buy a ceramic kiln with a digital controller. You can fire drop-outs and handkerchief vases perfectly well in a ceramic kiln and you can probably find that a ceramic kiln is less expensive than a similarly sized dual purpose kiln. If, on the other hand, you're just looking for a taller glass kiln than you currently have, then the Janus will work, but there are lots of better options than the Janus.

[JenniferB]

If you just want more height for drop-outs and handkerchief vases, then a front loading kiln will work fine. If, as Bert says, you want to make more complicated pieces or build pieces in the kiln, then a front loader is not the best choice. A clamshell or top loader works best for situations where you may need to straighten up the pieces after loading and that configuration also works well for drop-outs and handkerchief vases.

Are you just wanting more height, or are you also wanting to fire to a higher temperature than normal fusing temps? If you just want more height, there are lots of 14" top loading or clamshell kilns available that I would pick before an dual media kiln like the Janus. Dual purpose kilns suffer from what I call "toaster oven syndrome" -- a toaster oven doesn't toast as well as a toaster and it doesn't broil meat as well as an oven, but it's great for heating pizza. If you're not too demanding in terms of the kind of work you make, then a ceramic/glass kiln will work; if your requirements are more demanding, then you're probably better off buying a kiln for ceramics and a kiln for glass.

And one more thought: if all you want to make are drop-outs and handkerchief vases, and the height is really important to you, then buy a ceramic kiln with a digital controller. You can fire drop-outs and handkerchief vases perfectly well in a ceramic kiln and you can probably find that a ceramic kiln is less expensive than a similarly sized dual purpose kiln. If, on the other hand, you're just looking for a taller glass kiln than you currently have, then the Janus will work, but there are lots of better options than the Janus.

Thanks to all of you for your comments and advice.

Brad, I have 2 other top-loading glass kilns, a large Cone Art and a small Jen Ken, both top-loaders and I use them all the time. The reason I wanted a taller glass kiln was that 1) I want more height than my current kilns allow to make taller items, 2) I thought I'd need the element in the lid, and 3) I want to be able to see how far down the glass has slumped - not something you can do easily in a top loader.

I also have a 7 cu ft. L & L ceramic kiln but have never used it for slumping glass because it doesn't have an element in the lid and, like my glass kilns, it's a top loader.

I like your comment about the "toaster-oven syndrome" and had wondered about that myself. I don't necessarily need higher temperatures than a glass kiln will produce, I was just intrigued by the dual purpose, but I certainly want more than a toaster oven could produce so now I'm tending toward the Paragon GL 24ADTSD. But..... I think I'll test out the L & L with a drop vase before buying anything! I assume I should slow down the firing (slumping) schedule because it's just side-firing??

Thanks again for the responses.

Jennifer

[Brad Walker]

I routinely drop 5 1/2" in a 6" deep top loading kiln with side only elements and have dropped 20"+ in a top loading pottery kiln with side only elements. So dropping with side only elements is not an issue. Just go a bit slower than normal.

[JenniferB]

I routinely drop 5 1/2" in a 6" deep top loading kiln with side only elements and have dropped 20"+ in a top loading pottery kiln with side only elements. So dropping with side only elements is not an issue. Just go a bit slower than normal.

I'm excited to know about your experience with the pottery kiln. I'm going to try that out very soon myself but the relay on my large glass kiln just died and I have to wait for the replacement to arrive before I fuse a blank to drop.

I'm interested to read that you can drop in a space 1/2" shorter than your kiln's maximum height but I'm sure that's because you don't have a top element running. Unfortunately, I don't have the option of turning the element in the lid off in either of my glass kilns.

I'll let you know how things turn out.

Jennifer

[JestersBaubles]

I'm interested to read that you can drop in a space 1/2" shorter than your kiln's maximum height but I'm sure that's because you don't have a top element running. Unfortunately, I don't have the option of turning the element in the lid off in either of my glass kilns.

Jennifer

I have a Paragon Fusion 14 with top-only elements, and that is the kiln I normally do drops in. I am usually about 1/2 to 1" from the lid.

Dana W.

[JenniferB]

I routinely drop 5 1/2" in a 6" deep top loading kiln with side only elements and have dropped 20"+ in a top loading pottery kiln with side only elements. So dropping with side only elements is not an issue. Just go a bit slower than normal.

Brad,
Just to follow up on your suggestion..... I've done 2 floral former drapes in my ceramic kiln and both have turned out beautifully. Many thanks for your advice. I won't be buying a new taller kiln at the moment!!
Jennifer