A while back I saw a tread about using the unique overglaze to keep the color of copper in a sandwich fusing.
I have ordered the GC950 A and cannot make it work. Do I have the right one or is their a special way to apply it to have my copper looking piece
Dan
Unique overlaze for copper
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Judy Schnabel
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Dan,
What gauge copper are you using? I've been experimenting with the copper from Michael's and the copper from Nimrod Hall. I posted some of my experiments on http://www.picturetrail.com/judyfla go to album on copper & glass.
Judy
What gauge copper are you using? I've been experimenting with the copper from Michael's and the copper from Nimrod Hall. I posted some of my experiments on http://www.picturetrail.com/judyfla go to album on copper & glass.
Judy
Unfortunetely I cannot acces your pictures from this station. I will try later tonight at the studio.
But to answer your question, This is the .25 micron from BE.
Why? Do you think that it is too thin and I burn it right off.?
I have a feeling that I dont have the right glaze. Or do you have any suggestion as of what should I use instead. It kinds of bug me because I actually saw some of the pictures of how it can look with that glaze and it was beautifull.
Dan
But to answer your question, This is the .25 micron from BE.
Why? Do you think that it is too thin and I burn it right off.?
I have a feeling that I dont have the right glaze. Or do you have any suggestion as of what should I use instead. It kinds of bug me because I actually saw some of the pictures of how it can look with that glaze and it was beautifull.
Dan
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Judy Schnabel
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- Location: SW FL
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Dan,
You bought the correct glaze. One thing I discovered while experimenting with the various thicknesses is that the thin copper when placed close to the edge of the glass seemed to get black and the middle turned red. I used the Borax spray and the glaze on different thicknesses.
The only thing I didn't like about the look after the glaze was applied is that I could see the brush strokes. I don't have the patience to use my airbrush. I have the Badger and it kills me paying $10 for a cannister of air. I used to have a small spare tire that worked fine then my husband sold the utility trailer and the spare tire went with it.
My conclusion is that the farther away from the edge you keep your copper the better results you'll have. Also, go very slowly between 1000 and 1300 to squeeze out the bubbles.
Judy
You bought the correct glaze. One thing I discovered while experimenting with the various thicknesses is that the thin copper when placed close to the edge of the glass seemed to get black and the middle turned red. I used the Borax spray and the glaze on different thicknesses.
The only thing I didn't like about the look after the glaze was applied is that I could see the brush strokes. I don't have the patience to use my airbrush. I have the Badger and it kills me paying $10 for a cannister of air. I used to have a small spare tire that worked fine then my husband sold the utility trailer and the spare tire went with it.
My conclusion is that the farther away from the edge you keep your copper the better results you'll have. Also, go very slowly between 1000 and 1300 to squeeze out the bubbles.
Judy
Okay, I least I got this part right. I bought the good glaze.
I will try different thickness and away from the edge. However in the mean time I got an e-mail back from Tom from Texas that originally made the posting I was looking for.
The most interesting part of all is that he recommend that I actually go fast enough to make sure to trap the air inside the glass in order to have the glaze traped inside and cook it at a high temperature
Just out of curiousity. Do you use sys96, Be or float to do yours
And your recommendation is go slow. I have to admit, that trapping air equals bubble for sure I will definetely try both and I am very anxious to see the results
He also recommend using Spary A or superspray and make some test.
I will keep you posted on my results and thanbk you very much for all your help
Dan
I will try different thickness and away from the edge. However in the mean time I got an e-mail back from Tom from Texas that originally made the posting I was looking for.
The most interesting part of all is that he recommend that I actually go fast enough to make sure to trap the air inside the glass in order to have the glaze traped inside and cook it at a high temperature
Just out of curiousity. Do you use sys96, Be or float to do yours
And your recommendation is go slow. I have to admit, that trapping air equals bubble for sure I will definetely try both and I am very anxious to see the results
He also recommend using Spary A or superspray and make some test.
I will keep you posted on my results and thanbk you very much for all your help
Dan
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Judy Schnabel
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:45 pm
- Location: SW FL
- Contact:
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Judy Schnabel
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:45 pm
- Location: SW FL
- Contact:
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Cynthia
Just some things to think about when analyzing the results you get with different glasses, glazes, placements and schedules.
The different color changes you get are mostly due to the amount of oxidization that occurs to the copper before it is encapsulated by the glass. The glazes such as superspray or the unique glazes are protecting the copper from air right from the get go, so less oxidization is occuring. Faster firing may actually get it sealed up faster creating less opportunity for oxidization (but more trapped air). You might get a halo of changing colors as the interior may get less air exposure than the exterior edges...particularly if you fire it up slowly. Placement near or far from the outside edge of your glass creates different times within different zones of the glass for oxidization. Changing any of these factors, including the copper you are using will change your results, and knowing what is happening will give you greater control over your results.
And then there are the chemical reactions...try a piece of copper with an amber glass and see what you get. It's just too much fun!!!
The different color changes you get are mostly due to the amount of oxidization that occurs to the copper before it is encapsulated by the glass. The glazes such as superspray or the unique glazes are protecting the copper from air right from the get go, so less oxidization is occuring. Faster firing may actually get it sealed up faster creating less opportunity for oxidization (but more trapped air). You might get a halo of changing colors as the interior may get less air exposure than the exterior edges...particularly if you fire it up slowly. Placement near or far from the outside edge of your glass creates different times within different zones of the glass for oxidization. Changing any of these factors, including the copper you are using will change your results, and knowing what is happening will give you greater control over your results.
And then there are the chemical reactions...try a piece of copper with an amber glass and see what you get. It's just too much fun!!!
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Lynne Chappell
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Yes, you have to keep notes. I just did some tests of colored bits on top of a solid layer of silver foil, on top of black. Took me quite a while to figure out what was what on the results - no notes. I am going to have to retest, because I can't believe what I got.
See, I think I know my glass and will recognize it. I think it was the rhubarb green on top of the silver that changed to a deep reddish hue, but I've never seen it strike before. And I'm not totally sure that the one that was all mucky on the edges was the amber. And the bronze and chartreuse were both totally black. (I think).
Lynne
See, I think I know my glass and will recognize it. I think it was the rhubarb green on top of the silver that changed to a deep reddish hue, but I've never seen it strike before. And I'm not totally sure that the one that was all mucky on the edges was the amber. And the bronze and chartreuse were both totally black. (I think).
Lynne
Just a few more thoughts about Unique clear over copper. The maturity temperature of the original Unique colors is listed as cone 016, 1500 - 1525 F per their web site http://www.uniqueglasscolors.com/glasoriginal.html
This is fine when fusing float but a little hotter than normal fusing temp for BE or Sys 96. Unique suggests that the colors be "puddled" onto the substrate as opposed to "stroked" on. I apply a heavy coat of the clear to my copper shapes while they are on a clean sheet of paper. The paint covers the shape completely and extends over the edge of the shape onto the paper. When the paint dries I remove the painted copper shape and break or scrape away the paint extending past the edge of the copper. A tip I have found helpful is to add one drop of green Palmolive liquid dish washing detergent to a one ounce jar of clear and mix well. This reduces the surface tension of the paint and allows it to cover the copper shape without the tendency to bead up on the copper.
I have suggested firing fairly fast to seal the edges of the glass before the Unique clear melts. Most of the items I have made with copper inclusions have been 3" or smaller so this works for me. Others are working with larger blanks so the ramp up must be suitable for the size of the glass used. The reason for sealing the edges of the glass rapidly is to prevent additional oxygen from getting to the copper and darkening it, not to trap additional air between the layers. I honestly believe that the copper is brightened by this color when the organic part of the color is oxidized from the heat of the firing. As that organic material is oxidized in the closed system produced when the edges of the glass are fused it obtains the needed oxygen from the copper oxide on the surface of the copper shape which reduces that back to bright metalic copper which is the color I want. The fine bubbles over the copper are most likely carbon dioxide (CO2), the byproduct of the oxidation of the organic carbon in the paint. I would welcome discussion on this theory.
Best wishes,
Tom in Texas
This is fine when fusing float but a little hotter than normal fusing temp for BE or Sys 96. Unique suggests that the colors be "puddled" onto the substrate as opposed to "stroked" on. I apply a heavy coat of the clear to my copper shapes while they are on a clean sheet of paper. The paint covers the shape completely and extends over the edge of the shape onto the paper. When the paint dries I remove the painted copper shape and break or scrape away the paint extending past the edge of the copper. A tip I have found helpful is to add one drop of green Palmolive liquid dish washing detergent to a one ounce jar of clear and mix well. This reduces the surface tension of the paint and allows it to cover the copper shape without the tendency to bead up on the copper.
I have suggested firing fairly fast to seal the edges of the glass before the Unique clear melts. Most of the items I have made with copper inclusions have been 3" or smaller so this works for me. Others are working with larger blanks so the ramp up must be suitable for the size of the glass used. The reason for sealing the edges of the glass rapidly is to prevent additional oxygen from getting to the copper and darkening it, not to trap additional air between the layers. I honestly believe that the copper is brightened by this color when the organic part of the color is oxidized from the heat of the firing. As that organic material is oxidized in the closed system produced when the edges of the glass are fused it obtains the needed oxygen from the copper oxide on the surface of the copper shape which reduces that back to bright metalic copper which is the color I want. The fine bubbles over the copper are most likely carbon dioxide (CO2), the byproduct of the oxidation of the organic carbon in the paint. I would welcome discussion on this theory.
Best wishes,
Tom in Texas
Here we go again,
I made another test last night with some float.
I now tried the Super Spray on one piece of copper and The unique glaze on the other. I wish I knew how to post picture on this forum that you can see the results.
Short story is that the glaze still did not work but the super spray has retained most of it's copper color. My next test will be to have 2 or 3 coat of the super spray instead of only one. I have a feeling that with 2 or 3 coat on my copper will be more protected and I will be to get the results that I am looking for.
That being said, I have to admit that I am very frustrated not to undestand why it will not work with the unique glaze. I applied a very generous coat on my copper to the point that when dry it actually look like a white powder covering my piece of copper. I am making sure that it is completely dry, sandwich it betwen two piece of float, fires at 360/h up to 1200 soak for 30 minutes to avoid buble, 500 /h to 1525 soak for 10 minutes
As far as the bubble are concern, They start developping in the range between 1400 at 1525. I suspect that Tom's theory about CO2 is correct. I will therefore try to fire it twice instead. First firing to tack fuse at approximatly 1400 to try to avoid the bubble. The second firing will be done on the reverse. ie I will flip the piece on it's back and re fire the whole thing all the way to 1525 this time. Co2 seem to build with momentum. If I can stop that momentum, I might be able to control the bubbles.
Just a theory, stay tune for further test.
Dan
I made another test last night with some float.
I now tried the Super Spray on one piece of copper and The unique glaze on the other. I wish I knew how to post picture on this forum that you can see the results.
Short story is that the glaze still did not work but the super spray has retained most of it's copper color. My next test will be to have 2 or 3 coat of the super spray instead of only one. I have a feeling that with 2 or 3 coat on my copper will be more protected and I will be to get the results that I am looking for.
That being said, I have to admit that I am very frustrated not to undestand why it will not work with the unique glaze. I applied a very generous coat on my copper to the point that when dry it actually look like a white powder covering my piece of copper. I am making sure that it is completely dry, sandwich it betwen two piece of float, fires at 360/h up to 1200 soak for 30 minutes to avoid buble, 500 /h to 1525 soak for 10 minutes
As far as the bubble are concern, They start developping in the range between 1400 at 1525. I suspect that Tom's theory about CO2 is correct. I will therefore try to fire it twice instead. First firing to tack fuse at approximatly 1400 to try to avoid the bubble. The second firing will be done on the reverse. ie I will flip the piece on it's back and re fire the whole thing all the way to 1525 this time. Co2 seem to build with momentum. If I can stop that momentum, I might be able to control the bubbles.
Just a theory, stay tune for further test.
Dan
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Judy Schnabel
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:45 pm
- Location: SW FL
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Perfect. I will try to use yahoo since I am already familiar with some of the yahoo group. I guess the principle is the same for pictures
Stay tune in the next few days. I will be out of town until Monday, So I should be able to show you some results sometimes next week
We should actually call this tread the Glass Lab. I love it.
Dan
Stay tune in the next few days. I will be out of town until Monday, So I should be able to show you some results sometimes next week
We should actually call this tread the Glass Lab. I love it.
Dan