Backlighting Fused Glass Murals

[grozier]

Hi:
I have two mural projects with a designer to be installed in two kitchen backsplash areas. The mural dimensions are 24" x 36" and 24" x 48". Each mural is comprised of three fused glass panels which I plan to laminate to single sheets of either tempered or plate glass (1/4"). The backlighting aspect is problematic. We have discussed with the contractor either somehow boxing out the mural and using perimenter mounted LED strip lights or used LED panels the size of the individual murals. The murals will be smaller than the backsplash fields so we can add some form of tiling around the art work. This may be a good thing?

Any ideas as to how we can install the murals (they will be fairly heavy) to allow for the backlighting feature? I suppose we need to have a plan to also be able to get at the lighting should it need to be serviced. I am thinking I could make the back piece of tempered glass perhaps larger all of the way around to accommodate some form of channeling?

Thanks in advance.

Tom

[Bert Weiss]

Tom your options have everything to do with available space. The more space you have, the easier it is to light. With little space, look to the sign making industry for ways to create a bright white panel. The most expensive and shortest lasting solution is a plastic sheet that glows white. I forget what this is called (LCD?). The downside is that as it degrades, the light gets dimmer.

I have done some perimeter lighting with LED strips. These are aimed backwards in an 8" deep space lined with Roscolux crumpled aluminum vinyl wallpaper. This is a reflective surface used in the stage lighting industry. I could have used fluorescents for this but the life would have been 3 years verses 30 years. My client chose to go with the no maintenance, more expensive solution.

When your fused glass has texture on the back, you have to be very careful not to push too much light through it. If you do this, you end up with total visual confusion. Whereas a soft light makes it glow nicely. I often utilize front lighting instead of back lighting. Of course it depends on many factors.

[grozier]

Thanks a lot Bert.

[Paul Schulz]

i was a leadlight artist for many years before taking up warm glass and in that time made many panels for kitchen cupboards, which needed back lighting ,,,the most successful way i found was to put a mirror behind the panel,,,one drawback of doing this was the glass colour is doubled ,,light in ,then light out,,,,any way it is an idea for you to look at...the photo is of a table with no inside lighting ,,but a mirror behind the panels

[Peter Angel]

the photo is of a table with no inside lighting ,,but a mirror behind the panels

Paul, do you have a photo of the stained glass + mirror combination with inside lighting that you could please post?

Pete

[Paul Schulz]

hi Peter have had a look through my photos ,,that one is probably the best that shows the mirror behind a panel ,,,with just the natural light ,but here are a few others that i did ,,,the three old guys around the camp fire was put in to a pub ,,,quite dark and not a lot of light,, it worked very well with just the mirror behind it , the other is a mirror with a foiled over lay ,,i had to use a flash to take the photos, as it is in a dark hallway ,,but with just the light in the hallway it still comes to life. i would say for you to get hold of a piece of mirror and put your panels in front of it ,have a look ,,you will get a far better idea if this will work for you...am having trouble trying to load the other photo,,,will try again after i load these

[Paul Schulz]

PaulSchulz_18.jpg (150.41 KiB) Viewed 18097 times

hope you can see this ,had to scale the pic way down to get it to load

[Victoria Balva]

LED lighting should be used with caution. It is not recommended for colour sensitive applications. It has lower CRI index. I learned it hard way - the lighting engineer sold to the client expansive LED system with vinyl screens to dissolve light dots. Nobody listened to me when I tried to change at least position of screens. Guess who was blamed for glass not looking good enough? I would count only on actual existing light and build a project based on qualities of reflected light only without artificial light with limited space behind

Some general info from Wiki
The color rendering index (CRI), sometimes called color rendition index, is a quantitative measure of the ability of a light source to reproduce the colors of various objects faithfully in comparison with an ideal or natural light source.

Light sources with a high CRI are desirable in color-critical applications such as photography and cinematography.[1] It is defined by the International Commission on Illumination as follows:[2]

Color rendering: Effect of an illuminant on the color appearance of objects by conscious or subconscious comparison with their color appearance under a reference illuminant

[suds]

LED lighting should be used with caution. It is not recommended for colour sensitive applications. It has lower CRI index.

Some white LED's have CRI's in the low to mid 90's which is excellent. Some are less than 60 which is horrible.

LED's are just fine for color sensitive applications but you have to choose LEDs with good CRI and appropriate color temperature, cuz they ain't all created equal.

[Victoria Balva]

Well. We did hundreds of installations. At the start of the project I describe my general expectations of the lighting set up showing different samples and giving options. I always say that I do not recommend using LED but if the client prefers I tell them about CRI and colour temperature. In few cases after installation clients proudly demonstrated installed LED - I was never impressed. T5, halogen or regular luminescent bulbs do better work especially if there enough space for bulbs installation. The main thing is not even WHAT, but HOW. If light planed and installed right it will bring glass up, otherwise ruin everything. Here are few images of 2 projects with LED. Both projects are very important to me and I really care about lighting and spent more time trying to explain better options.

Project 1. LED with vinyl membrane to dissolve light dots, very expansive set up. During design discussion meeting lighting engineer demonstrated LED panel and membrane. She put membrane 6 inches from light source and then we put glass about 12 inches from the membrane. The glass looked great, everybody liked and agreed on that. When actual light box was built they installed membrane 3 feet from light source and glass was installed 12 inches from membrane. Light rays became weaker and bounced from the membrane back. Light rays were not able to break trough the membrane and glass was placed in the shadow of the membrane. If the membrane was installed 6 -12 inches from the light source - the whole setting would work great. But that was beyond my control. Another issue... when you go through the house - all light fixtures are very warm. The skylight created impression that it was ugly commercial - gray unpleasant pinkish spot. The original LED lights had warm colour but wrong setting killed everything.

Project 2. I had no idea how the light would be done by the client. I described them directed from the ceiling few warm spots. LED looks cold and it does not fit into a whole lighting concept of the house. It is too aggressively sharp shifting highlight to the unwanted spot . Glass does not benefit from this lighting at all - the goal to high light the glass was not reached and warm setting of other lighting sources was ruined (in my opinion)

If somebody has good experience with LED lighting please share your project images . We will learn how to use it right

[Victoria Balva]

Just couple more images are attached. I am not satisfied with LED in my finished projects and I have no trust in LED lighting. I prefer to not deal with it at all but would reconsider if I see good samples of LED lighting in glass installations

[Bert Weiss]

This is the piece I did with LED strips facing backwards in an 8" deep light box lined with roscolux (crinkled aluminum foil vinyl wallpaper). Each set of perimeter light strips is dimmed independently, so we could match the glow. The lights are set to look their best at night. During the day, you might not guess the lights are on, until you turned them off, and it would become obvious. This glass looks horrid if you put too strong a light behind it.

This lighting system cost $5,000. The client chose this over a fluorescent alternative, primarily because the fluorescents would need replacing about every 3 years. The LED system is designed for at least 30 years. They are all running quite dimmed down, which extends their life. I do not expect to get the call about fixing the lights in my lifetime.