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Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

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Havi
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Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Havi » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:22 am

Is it possible at all??
Hello dear friends,
I want to use liquid enamels [colorline paints] in my glass art.
I want the consistency of the liquid thicker than it is now. Can I do it by adding powder of the same color, or perhaps mix, and create another color???

Has anyone got an experience with this?
Is there another method to make the consistency thicker???

Many thanks in advance,
Havi
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Valerie Adams » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:37 am

I believe adding flux is what you should do.

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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Brad Walker » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:51 am

Havi wrote:I want to use liquid enamels [colorline paints] in my glass art.
I want the consistency of the liquid thicker than it is now. Can I do it by adding powder of the same color, or perhaps mix, and create another color???


Get the Color Line Silk Screen Paste, which has the same color range but is thicker.

The Color Line flux will brighten the colors, but won't necessarily make them thicker.

Havi
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Havi » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:27 pm

Thanks for your responses, Val. and Brad
I just ordered a lot of the enamels, in addition to the ones I already bought while being in Zurich, in a workshop [where they make the enamels etc.] .
They carry only 6 or 7 colors of the silkscreen paste, the rest of the enamels are more 'liquidy' - from my own experience. This is the reason why I asked about making the consistency thicker.

I can try and post here something I made which is mostly powders, but later I added liquid enamel.
On something else I used the silkscreen paste, but it needs to be fired again, so I have not even photographed it yet.

thanks for your input,

Havi

POWDER AND STENCIL - עותק.JPG

This is mainly powders, but the dripping is made with liquid enamels, my first experiment with this. I hope you can distinguish.
H
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JestersBaubles
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby JestersBaubles » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:27 pm

You might want to experiment with a tiny, tiny amount of CMC. That stuff "plumps up" pretty quickly, but a little might give you the consistency you seek without affecting the color.

I don't work a lot with enamels, so this is definitely just a wild guess.

Dana W.

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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Bert Weiss » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:58 pm

I make my own media using propylene glycol and glycerine, both food grade (easy to get) First I mix my powders with powdered gum arabic, then I make a paste, which can be diluted. The glycol makes it in to a paint that won't boil before it dries in the kiln. The glycerine is very slow to dry. This helps if you are screen printing, so your screen doesn't get clogged with dried out paint. I often paint on very large pieces of glass. The slow drying helps me do this. I can always put the glass in the kiln, heat it up to 350ºF and it will dry right out. I do this if I need to add another layer of color. My paints will last for a month on the palette without drying out.

For a quickie painting, you can use Seven Up soda pop. Sugar acts as the binder and water as the medium.

To thicken a paint, just use more color, heat up the water to drive it off, or maybe add some glycerine. Flux is nothing but clear glass, which might work fine, or might thin out your color.
Bert

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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Terry Gallentine » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:54 am

Bert,
What proportions is your propylene glycol to glycerine mix? I have mainly used commercial thixotropic solvent mixed mediums but you are always running a fine line between too fast a drying time and too thin to get a good screen print. The other thing is I use a standard dual cure photo emulsion and I was wondering how the emulsion holds up to the water based emulsion.

Thanks,
Terry

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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Bert Weiss » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:03 pm

Terry Gallentine wrote:Bert,
What proportions is your propylene glycol to glycerine mix? I have mainly used commercial thixotropic solvent mixed mediums but you are always running a fine line between too fast a drying time and too thin to get a good screen print. The other thing is I use a standard dual cure photo emulsion and I was wondering how the emulsion holds up to the water based emulsion.

Thanks,
Terry
Terry, I don't really know, maybe 2/3 glycol and 1/3 glycerine. I mix the gum arabic exactly as I was taught by Albin Elskus. Pat it down to about 1/8" and sprinkle the gum on top like lightly fallen snow. I use a cake batter spreader for my palette knife.
Bert



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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Georgia Novak » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:43 pm

Bert: You stated flux is nothing but clear glass. I don't understand...why are the fusing temps different for the various fluxes? I have always looked for one that is compatible with the fusing temps of glass vs. ceramic which is much higher.
Also how can the different fluxes be COE compatible with all glass? Georgia

Havi
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Havi » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:16 pm

Bert Weiss wrote:I make my own media using propylene glycol and glycerine, both food grade (easy to get) I guess I'll have to run around in pharmacies here, to find this staff
First I mix my powders with powdered gum arabic
I wonder where I would find that in Israel..., then I make a paste, which can be diluted. The glycol makes it in to a paint that won't boil before it dries in the kiln. The glycerine is very slow to dry. This helps if you are screen printing, so your screen doesn't get clogged with dried out paint. I often paint on very large pieces of glass. The slow drying helps me do this. I can always put the glass in the kiln, heat it up to 350ºF and it will dry right out. I do this if I need to add another layer of color. My paints will last for a month on the palette without drying out.

For a quickie painting, you can use Seven Up soda pop. Sugar acts as the binder and water as the medium.

To thicken a paint, just use more color, heat up the water to drive it off, or maybe add some glycerine. Flux is nothing but clear glass, which might work fine, or might thin out your color.



Thanks, Bert
I am sure in USA it is no big deal to get all this staff. Here, I'd rather buy [and spend more money] than waste my time, running after these products. But it is good to know that there are alternatives...

Thanks again.
H.
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Havi
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Havi » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:18 pm

JestersBaubles wrote:You might want to experiment with a tiny, tiny amount of CMC. That stuff "plumps up" pretty quickly, but a little might give you the consistency you seek without affecting the color.

I don't work a lot with enamels, so this is definitely just a wild guess.

Dana W.


Thanks, Dana,
I worry that CMC will dilute the color. :? :? wouldn't it?

THanks for the idea, though
Havi
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Brad Walker » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:26 pm

Havi wrote:I worry that CMC will dilute the color. :? :? wouldn't it?


Not in our experience (using a different enamel than you do). But that's easy to test with the particular enamels you're using.

Havi
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Havi » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:31 pm

Thanks, Brad

Do you use the powder, or make a liquid of the CMC, with water?



Thanks again,

H.
Haviva Z
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Brad Walker » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:35 pm

Havi wrote:Do you use the powder, or make a liquid of the CMC, with water?


We use Richard LaLonde's recipe for making the liquid CMC mixture. I think he calls it Liquid Glass Line. The recipe's on his site.

Bert Weiss
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Bert Weiss » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:26 pm

Georgia Novak wrote:Bert: You stated flux is nothing but clear glass. I don't understand...why are the fusing temps different for the various fluxes? I have always looked for one that is compatible with the fusing temps of glass vs. ceramic which is much higher.
Also how can the different fluxes be COE compatible with all glass? Georgia
Each different flux is a different formula of glass that melts at a different temperature. This style of colors are very dense, so only a very thin layer is required. This thin layer is not thick enough to cause compatibility problems. On the other hand, colored glass frits, including Thompson Enamels, Bullseye, System 96 etc, do require a thick enough coating to cause compatibility issues.
Bert



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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Bert Weiss » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:32 pm

Havi

I used to purchase a water miscible roller coating medium. The Ferro Product number (1544) has changed, and I don't know it. This medium is slow to dry, and is also well suited to screen printing. The fellow who managed mediums there, taught me (vaguely) how to concoct my own medium.

Here in the USA, I have bought glycerine at the Walmart Pharmacy. Propylene Glycol is trickier. It is commonly sold with a pink coloring added for use in winterizing water pipes. However I found the best deal is on food grade glycol. The same company sells glycerine.
Bert



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charlie
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby charlie » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:49 pm

[quote="Havi"][quote="Bert Weiss"]I make my own media using [color=#FF40FF]propylene glycol [/color]and [color=#FF00FF]glycerine[/color], both food grade (easy to get)[color=#BF00FF] I guess I'll have to run around in pharmacies here, to find this staff
[/color] First I mix my powders with powdered gum arabic
[color=#BF00BF]I wonder where I would find that in Israel..., [/color]then I make a paste, which can be diluted. The glycol makes it in to a paint that won't boil before it dries in the kiln. The glycerine is very slow to dry. This helps if you are screen printing, so your screen doesn't get clogged with dried out paint. I often paint on very large pieces of glass. The slow drying helps me do this. I can always put the glass in the kiln, heat it up to 350ºF and it will dry right out. I do this if I need to add another layer of color. My paints will last for a month on the palette without drying out.

For a quickie painting, you can use Seven Up soda pop. Sugar acts as the binder and water as the medium.

To thicken a paint, just use more color, heat up the water to drive it off, or maybe add some glycerine. Flux is nothing but clear glass, which might work fine, or might thin out your color.[/quote]


Thanks, Bert
I am sure in USA it is no big deal to get all this staff. Here, I'd rather buy [and spend more money] than waste my time, running after these products. But it is good to know that there are alternatives...

Thanks again.
H.[/quote]

propylene glycol is the pink part of recreational vehicle antifreeze (also used in houses that are shut for the winter to winterproof toilets and traps).

glycerine is commonly found in a druggist, and is also used to make bubble water for children to use when blowing bubbles. it's also used to make soaps, if you have any shops that sell products to make soap at home.

both of these can be commonly found; they don't have to be sourced from the US.

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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Terry Gallentine » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:13 pm

I have bought both the glycol and the glycerine online through a company called: bulk apothecary.com

Havi
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Havi » Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:01 am

Many thanks,
Charlie and Terry
I shall try getting this staff here


Havi

As always - this IS the best site ever!!!
Haviva Z
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Re: Mixing liquid enamels with powedrs

Postby Georgia Novak » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:05 pm

Thanks Bert, you are always so helpful. Georgia


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