Outbuilding as a kiln location

[Patgsc]

I'm thinking of building a small outbuilding for my kiln and a few supplies. (My knees object more and more to dealing with the stairs to the basement where my kiln is currently located. ) I live in a humid environment. Would such a location be bad for the kiln? Rust on metal parts and maybe the elements? The basement where the kiln currently resides is uninsulated, and it seems to do ok there. Any advice on other issues I should take into consideration? Thanks.

[Marty]

You'll need to take care to burn out residual moisture in shelves and things. Slower firings should take care of that.
Some kilns, notably Denver's, are very prone to rusting. The outside will stay beautifully blue but you'll start getting rust flakes from the underside of the sheet metal jacket working their way out between the metal and the fiber, especially at the front edge of the lid. Frequent vacuuming may help.
The elements won't rust.
How about a dehumidifier in the new building?

[Tom Fuhrman]

just running a continual fan in the new building will help circulate the air and help with the moisture problem, but as Marty stated a dehumidifier would be best.

[Patgsc]

Thanks so much. I like the idea of a dehumidifier.

[Kevin Midgley]

You probably will also need to add a heat source to the space besides your kiln in order to have the dehumidifier work well at lower temperature times of year. Dehumidifiers are notorious electrical power pigs so combined with the space heater your electrical bill could easily be $100 a month.
Alternatively keep a kiln running in the space all the time during the cold damp seasons of the year.

This is also where high levels of building insulation and properly installed and protected vapor barriers rapidly pay for themselves along with making the space comfortable to work in.

The reality is you will not want to go out and play with your kilns and glass in a cold damp outdoor space.










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[Morganica]

You don't say where you live (except that it's humid), but as someone who's going through rehab on a knee replacement and a quad injury setback right now (along with a couple years of wearing a leg brace), the delights of carrying work outside through a couple of doors in winter might not be much better than carrying it downstairs into the basement, so keep that in mind.

Otherwise, you'll also want to make sure your space is adequately lighted so you can see what you're putting into the kiln. Also that you have plenty of storage space, racks, hanging pegs, etc., for everything that is used kiln-side. That would include kilnwash, brushes, buckets, mixing spoons and scrapers, kiln furniture, rulers, scissors, xacto knives and razors, fiber papers, kilnshelves and dams, vacuum for cleaning out your kiln, broom and small whisk broom with dustpans, respirator(s), goggles, aprons, gloves, shelf/cart/table to hold works that are going into the kiln and jars of frit you're sprinkling onto stuff on the shelves, etc.

If you don't have enough storage/work surfaces for that kind of stuff, you'll wind up lugging all that stuff out there and leaving it in strange places on the floor to trip over. Pretty soon your kiln room becomes an obstacle course, which doesn't make your knees happy either, take it from me.

One other thing: I like to keep a nice big white board near the kiln somewhere--it's a good way to keep my favorite schedules close at hand, and to write reminder notes about the current schedule for whatever's in the kiln.

[Patgsc]

Thanks for all the advice. It's give me plenty to think about. An outbuilding doesn't sound like the best alternative, but I'm stumped for other options. At least, if I do it, I have some factors to keep in mind. Thanks again. P

[Terry Gallentine]

If you are looking for a good reason to use an outbuilding for a kiln location, here is one. You won't lose your house if you have a kiln related fire! I have known at least a couple of potters who have lost their studios to fire.

[Buttercup]

Have you looked into the cost of one of those stairwell chairlift thingies versus the cost of what you're planning to build, wire and fitout, given you already have your basement set up? Or if you're more adventurous, a heavy-duty dumb waiter? Jen

[Brad Walker]

I have known at least a couple of potters who have lost their studios to fire.

In all my years I've never heard of a kiln fire that was started by a kiln malfunction. The only ones I'm aware of are from faulty wiring in the wall or an overloaded circuit. Would be interested in learning the details of these studio fires.

[Bert Weiss]

I have known at least a couple of potters who have lost their studios to fire.

In all my years I've never heard of a kiln fire that was started by a kiln malfunction. The only ones I'm aware of are from faulty wiring in the wall or an overloaded circuit. Would be interested in learning the details of these studio fires.

The fire story I heard stemmed from not using the metal riser stand supplied with the kiln. It was placed directly on a flammable surface. The person who was damaged by the fire sued the kiln company and lost.

[Terry Gallentine]

Brad, I apologize for not knowing why these people lost their studios to fire. It may not have been a kiln malfunction. I do know of a firing by a friend that scared me a little. He was firing a large kiln that was full of tiles for a project. He fired the tiles over night using a kiln controller. When we came to the studio in the morning, the kiln was white hot inside. The controller had failed. The tiles had melted until they were pooling on the floor where the molten mass was eating its way through the soft brick floor of the kiln. The kiln was toast but it was elevated above a cement floor and didn't start a fire. It still put a scare into me and a distrust of kiln controllers. In any case, I have never housed my kilns in the same structure where my family sleeps.

[Brad Walker]

Brad, I apologize for not knowing why these people lost their studios to fire. It may not have been a kiln malfunction. I do know of a firing by a friend that scared me a little. He was firing a large kiln that was full of tiles for a project. He fired the tiles over night using a kiln controller. When we came to the studio in the morning, the kiln was white hot inside. The controller had failed. The tiles had melted until they were pooling on the floor where the molten mass was eating its way through the soft brick floor of the kiln. The kiln was toast but it was elevated above a cement floor and didn't start a fire. It still put a scare into me and a distrust of kiln controllers. In any case, I have never housed my kilns in the same structure where my family sleeps.

No apology needed, Terry. The reason I brought it up is that I've never been able to document a fire caused by a kiln that was properly set up and used, only kiln fires that happened due to faulty wiring or misuse. Many people have a fear that kilns can malfunction and cause a fire, but even after years of searching, I've yet to find a single instance of that happening. In my own experience, I once had a relay failure in which the kiln reached 2400F, took over a day to cool, the glass ate through half the brick on the inside, and yet no outside damage. And that was a kiln sitting on a wooden table with a cardboard box six inches away. So for the most part kilns are safer than folks think.

[Terry Gallentine]

I agree Brad. I think that with proper handling procedures, kilns are pretty safe. The failure of SSR's is for me the only main concern. I wish there was a kill switch of some sort that would shutdown power to the kiln when the temp reached 1800 degrees or so. In the past the only device like this was an old fashioned kiln sitter. Is there anything out there now that would do this?

[Brad Walker]

Is there anything out there now that would do this?

Never used one, but a temperature limit controller should work: http://www.duralite.com/store/scripts/p ... product=92

[Bert Weiss]

I agree Brad. I think that with proper handling procedures, kilns are pretty safe. The failure of SSR's is for me the only main concern. I wish there was a kill switch of some sort that would shutdown power to the kiln when the temp reached 1800 degrees or so. In the past the only device like this was an old fashioned kiln sitter. Is there anything out there now that would do this?

Terry, some controllers including the Bartlett RTC 1000 (sometimes this is kiln company branded) have a high temp limit capability.

I just wired up a 3 zone kiln using SSR relays, with this system. I started out with 2 - 3 pole normally open mechanical contactors. There is another intermediary relay required. That relay gets a signal from the safety tab inside the controller. I put a toggle switch in that line, which will effectively cut power to the elements before the relays. (this will work with any kind of relay that might stick on) Since I have 3 zones, 3 wires then go through my SSR relays, and the other 3 go directly to the elements. When the kiln is turned off, there is still a 120vAC potential if you connect an element to ground. If you flip the toggle switch, or if the controller goes in to error mode, all potential is removed.

The tech guys at Bartlett can help you set that up. I am not aware if Orton controllers have the same capability.

Watlow makes a redundant stand alone hi temp limit controller that requires it's own thermocouple, and is wired up the same way through double pole normally open contactors.

[Terry Gallentine]

Bert and Brad,
Thanks for the info. I have been thinking about getting an RTC 1000 anyway so if it could be wired to shutdown in case of SSR failure, that would be great. The information on the Watlow high temp controller is much appreciated too and the price is right.