WORKING WITH LIQUID ENAMELS OR GLASS PAINTS

[Bert Weiss]

Bert,
I think I have some Samba powders, which I also bought there.
I was told that I could mix it with BE powders, in order to enhance the BE colors, Do you know anything about it???


Thanks
Havi

Havi, my information might not be correct. I don't really know. Ferro does manufacture in Europe. Beats me. I would never advise adding Color Line powders along with Bullseye frits. Maybe somebody has a way to do that, but to me it is counterintuitive. You run the risk of too much pigment, and the risk of incompatibility.

[Havi]

No.
This is CREATIVE GLASS, who sold me. they probably import it, I guess.

However, I take very seriously your comments. printed them, to be put in my working notebook. Hopefully I'll run series of test this Shabbat.

Take care,
And thanks again.
This board is the best!!!

Havi

[Terry Gallentine]

Havi,
I have been screen printing enamels on glass for some 30 years and I have found out that the glass enamel itself is only a small part of the overall complications. I started out as a printmaker too and have found that the complications of screen printing on glass are many. Your screening technique can have a large impact on your success. Along with your printing technique there are issues with the type of medium you use, the screen mesh size, the style of squeegee you use, your screen offset, what resolution you are trying to obtain and what thickness of lay down you are trying to achieve. If you are shooting for multiple prints before you have drying in problems then you may be talking about many more complications. The long and the short of it is that it takes quite a while to anticipate and deal with the problems associated with the screen printing let alone the side of the equation that deals with the glass material itself.

[Bert Weiss]

Havi,
I have been screen printing enamels on glass for some 30 years and I have found out that the glass enamel itself is only a small part of the overall complications. I started out as a printmaker too and have found that the complications of screen printing on glass are many. Your screening technique can have a large impact on your success. Along with your printing technique there are issues with the type of medium you use, the screen mesh size, the style of squeegee you use, your screen offset, what resolution you are trying to obtain and what thickness of lay down you are trying to achieve. If you are shooting for multiple prints before you have drying in problems then you may be talking about many more complications. The long and the short of it is that it takes quite a while to anticipate and deal with the problems associated with the screen printing let alone the side of the equation that deals with the glass material itself.

Screen printing is an excellent way to define the thickness of the layer of application. Spraying can result in a layer anywhere between too thin and too thick. Brush painting requires a synergy between the thickness of the paint, the brush, and the hand of the painter. One technique I enjoy is a mono print technique where you lay down a piece of paper on a painting, and rub over it, then move it to another spot and rub again. There is always stamping using any pattern from potatoes to linoleum blocks. There are probably many approaches you can innovate using a fusion of ideas from traditional printing using on glaze colors.

[De Anza Art Glass Club]

I wonder what response shall I get if I put this on BE bulletin board.

Have you been to the BE bulletin board regarding this topic? I don't see a post from you. There is a thread on Colorline, started in December. The last post includes a link to an article by a frequent poster on this board which includes a Bullseye employee's experience in which he admits that the manufacturer's instructions aren't clear on the reasons behind some things.

I won't put a link to the BE thread, but I'll leave a link given by the BE thread, so maybe you can decide whether you want to go there or not. (Not sure how to say that, but it sounds like you don't want to go to the BE bulletin board.)
http://www.morganica.com/glass/tools-su ... th-dustin/

[Havi]

Why would I not want to go to BE bulletin board???

Basically I have learnt SO MUCH on this board, that for me, any other board is only second to warmglass. If I really seek a responsible answer - my first address would be warmglass.
however,
I am privately on the mailing list of MORGANICA - Cynthia Morgan, a person whom I appreciate a lot, as a person, and as an artist. I 'met' her here, on WARMGLASS... Thank you for posting her link - for the benefit of others on this board. She is a frequent visitor on this forum.

I checked Bulleye Bulletin Board, and read what they write there. I did not read about multiple firings - and this is what bothers me most. It can be solved, by just printing on the last firing , but this is contrary to what I had been told. Also contrary to my basic plan of working.
@Terry Gallentine
I use 'Easy Screen', I do not do editions. Even in the past, as a printmaker, I mostly did collographs. I never did series or editions, on the contrary, I used more than one plate for a single print. All my prints are unique prints. You can see some of them on my website at http://www.havivaz.com/prints.asp . I use the easy screen as a part of what I do on the glass. My work is a combination of glass, glass wafers, and prints, screens and stamps and whatever I see that supports the composition.

So finally Bert what are you using? Sunshine or Samba? and why? And do you do multiple firings?
\ Does ANYBODY do multiple firings, - and what can they teach me at that particular point?

Thanks for your input, all of you,

Havi

[Bert Weiss]

Havi, primarily I use Sunshine series that I mix myself with micas. I usually work in a single firing. Often I can get away with a single firing that vitrifies the paint and does a slump. Most often I am reverse painting and firing paint side down, so the painting comes out under glass.

I like to use a paint medium that dries extremely slowly out in the air. When I need it to dry, I place it in a warm kiln (usually 350 or 500ºF with the door open or the bell raised), until it dries, and then I can do whatever I need to do, including add more paint, or fire paint side down.

Another way I work is to make a painting on a sheet of 10mm float glass with Sunshine series and then fire it to 1080ºF. This vitrifies the paint just to the point of being stuck on. Then I cover it with another sheet of 10mm and fuse with color encased. I have to deal with the tin sides and how they shift various colors (If the piece is to be used flat, I can place tin sides down and up), and if reds are encased, they turn black. Because float glass doesn't bend until 1100ºF, this strategy works really well. If you were to do this with fusing glasses, you would have to insure that the first firing keeps the glass flat.

[Brad Walker]

And do you do multiple firings?
\ Does ANYBODY do multiple firings, - and what can they teach me at that particular point?

Jody fires multiple times, routinely up to a dozen or so. I think some of her pieces have been fired 40 times or more. The key is to minimize the firings at full fuse temp and do the multiple firings at a lower temperature (1285 to 1325F).

And Bert's right, you can mix micas with the enamels if you wish.

This is all with Sunshine. Can't say about other enamels.

[Bert Weiss]

My favorite stained glass artist of all time is a fellow named Joep Nicholas. He is credited with having produced the most square footage of any stained glass artist in the 20th century. He pioneered a technique using a variety of media in a particular order to paint faces and drapery in a single firing with multiple layers of paint. Albinus Elskus wrote about it in his book, "The Art of Painting on Glass".

Essentially, a simplification is that you can paint with an oil based medium over a water based medium and vice versa. You can go on like this ad infinitum, as long as you don't put one medium over itself for more than a brush stroke or maybe two.

Nicholas laid down a full layer of water and gum arabic paint, then painted lines over this with a vinegar and gum arabic tracing paint, then went over that with a lavender oil layer and finished with an alcohol mixed layer. Between each layer he would also scratch off paint he had applied. Then he fired once. His goal was speed. His result was stunning.

[Havi]

Thanks,
MANY THANKS, Bert and Brad
Right now I am doing more wafers, kind of tentatively 'composed' [-not yet fused....] several pieces, and photo'ed them, so that I can decide what I do and HOW I do it. I plan on series, not on a single piece. Once the wafers are fused - I shall start considering printing - so this would be the last firing.
Throughout the whole passing week I could not work, I was so heartbroken. Only today, when I figured out how I can continue, I went back to work. I hurt a lot when things do not work they should. So I am really grateful for your knowledge and advises.

Bert , is there a special benefit by firing upside down - the print on what would be the upper side of the piece later? Does it relate to surface tension??? i.e. the color will not stretch or something? [the wafers do - they stretch, being fired on the top , but would not stretch if they are fired underneath]

I am really grateful,
Havi

[Bert Weiss]

Bert , is there a special benefit by firing upside down - the print on what would be the upper side of the piece later? Does it relate to surface tension??? i.e. the color will not stretch or something? [the wafers do - they stretch, being fired on the top , but would not stretch if they are fired underneath]

I am really grateful,
Havi

Havi, the result is a painting sitting under a lens of clear glass. Often a painting on the surface of glass can come out looking more like paint and less like glass. So, I have to reverse paint with the highlights on first and the background last. One approach is to spray on the background with a color. That color covers the entire back surface, and is the background color from the front. The photo doesn't reveal the glass on top, but this was done as a reverse painting.

[Havi]

Thanks Bert,
A nice piece!
I must insist do you PRINT on the glass or paint on it???
I do not paint but PRINT. I believe it is different. And IF you print, has it happened to you that you fired a piece MORE THAN ONCE, with the print on it, and it was not harmed??? Ferro Samba?

THanks,

Havi

[Bert Weiss]

Thanks Bert,
A nice piece!
I must insist do you PRINT on the glass or paint on it???
I do not paint but PRINT. I believe it is different. And IF you print, has it happened to you that you fired a piece MORE THAN ONCE, with the print on it, and it was not harmed??? Ferro Samba?

THanks,

Havi

I don't remember exactly how I painted that piece. I often incorporate a mono-printing technique where I put paper over a wet painting, rub it, and place that paper down somewhere else and rub it. This removes more paint than it deposits and results in a look I like.

I have focused on how to paint and get away with one firing. Ask Jody about multiple firings. What Brad wrote makes a lot of sense to me. Try not to high fire every time.

From a business standpoint, multiple firings are expensive and time consuming, so if you do that, you better get plenty of WoW. If I were wanting to utilize a multi-layer approach, I'd seriously consider firing enamels on steel. Those firings take 15 minutes to heat and cool, rather than 24 hours each.

[Havi]

Bert,
Brad Walker is a person whose vast knowledge, and responsibility, and generosity in sharing - is something I can not even say how much I appreciate....
Of course his advises and experience is something I cherish and follow - almost with closed eyes. And this goes to Jody too.

I asked you, because I know you too have 'some' experience and 'some' knowledge, and I feel I can always learn from others [the use of mica you mentioned, BTW, sort of]

I am nagging, because my issue is, that I use print in addition to working with wafers, and I want to continue working like this [if possible]. It seems to me a bit tricky, as I really progress step by step.
The wafers have their own problematic behavior - they also change while being fired on top of the piece - so I fire them upside down. This creates a surface which is not absolutely flat - which makes the printing a bit problematic - not as I would print on a flat glass surface.

I want to be able to do both processes on the same piece. So I learnt already how to work with the wafers satisfactorily, I need now to know how to add prints to this. I have wonderful screens which had been made for me - I want to use them.
I add a photo of something I made, which is a combination of both processes. [it looks as if it is broken, but it is not]

Havi

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