Moderators: Brad Walker, Tony Smith
ROFL! I didn't realize I was keeping anyone so amused!lauri wrote:This thread hs been the most thrilling adventure story
I have read for a long time.
Can't wait for the next episode
-lauri
Whoosh!Chris Rogahn wrote:Emma,
I just started reading this thread, I hope this doesn't come too late for you.
When I read your description and saw your diagram on the Wet Canvas Site, my first thought was (given the thickness of your metal casting, and the shape and thickness of your glass) to keep them separated. The glass can still be fused through the hole, the stem just needs to be slightly smaller than the opening through your silver casting.
hmmm...
Here's the way I would make my first approach at this:
1. Cast your front flower and back leaf shape separately - If I remember correctly you want to do these as Pate De Verre. This will add a step (as opposed to regular casting), but I think will give you a nicer end product.
Then, according to the project requirements, I would have to solder them together and to the leaf...
2.The front flower will need to have a "stem" (the part that will pass through the silver casting). I would clean up the front flower, make an appropriately sized (just barely smaller than your opening in your casting) "stem" from sculpty clay (several times longer than the actual needed stem length) and re-invest face down. After removing the clay, fill with the same frit as you used (or a piece of appropriate glass rod) and re-fire. Clean up the flower with stem, place face down, put the silver casting over your flower and mark where the stem protrudes up through the casting. Grind back the stem to just about the same height as the opening.
Out of curiousity, what would you recommend to grind with? I've got a Dremel at hand, and no access to "real" equipment that I know of...
3. Invest the flower part again face down (shallow this time, not covering the back of the flower, just enough to keep the shape and details of the front of the flower).
4. Around the inside of the hole in your silver casting you will need to paint a layer of strong "Bead Release".
5. Position your glass leaf on top. Depending on the surface of the back of your silver casting, you may need to either coat any protrusions with bead release or if it's realtively smooth, a piece of thin-fire cut to the leaf shape may work. Basically anything to keep the metal and the glass from adhering to each other.
6. Fire. With good temperature control, you should be able to tack fuse the back of the leaf to the stem. Even with good temp. control and slow, long firing, you may lose some details on your leaf.
You get the genius cap today... I would have NEVER thought of that! I'm definately going to try this again, once I have the all-metal one done for credit...
7. Carefully, carefully anneal. Remember that part of the glass is in a mold, part shielded by the silver and part exposed to the elements.
8. Soak the piece (start with water) to remove the bead release.
The main problem I can see with this is that the flower and stem could potentially spin. This could be solved by the shape of the stem and or small bumps (decorative elements) on the leaf side (outside the shape of the leaf) that would keep the glass in place.
Yeah, that could be a problem... OR a potential design element... hmm...
The other problem could see is if the firing is too hot, the silver casting could slump down into the front flower and again become adhered (you may have to use a separator there as well).
If I did the leaf in fine silver, then I don't think that it would slump... I could certainly be wrong, but I think that only happens with glass and similar things... because glass has "softening points" where metal has definate melting points...
I just had one more thought. You may be able to use a "flux" between the stem and the back of the leaf to lower the temp needed to fuse the two pieces together. Maybe someone else can guide her to an appropriate product? I was thinking "Back Magic" or the Sunshine Ferro product?
Flux for glass? Awesome! I hadn't even thought to ask about one...
I hope this helps (please remember I haven't actually done this, so this is all just theory from my head)!
Chris Rogahn
And may I offer you the sneak preview? Fresh off the press, pictures from the fashion shoot with thrilling commentary by Miss E herself! Prepare to be dazzeled! Warning: not for the faint of heart.froggee501 wrote:ROFL! I didn't realize I was keeping anyone so amused!lauri wrote:This thread hs been the most thrilling adventure story
I have read for a long time.
Can't wait for the next episode
-lauri
Next episode: Emma is reattempting, but ALL in metals this time... Sorry glassies! However, glass is not out of the picture...
Stay tuned for the progress of metal rebirth, as Emma spends hours overtime to repair the damage... can this relationship be saved?
froggee501 wrote:Whoosh!Chris Rogahn wrote: Here's the way I would make my first approach at this:
1. Cast your front flower and back leaf shape separately - If I remember correctly you want to do these as Pate De Verre. This will add a step (as opposed to regular casting), but I think will give you a nicer end product.
Then, according to the project requirements, I would have to solder them together and to the leaf...
I think you figured out down in Step 6 that these two pieces get fused together - not soldered
2.The front flower will need to have a "stem" (the part that will pass through the silver casting). I would clean up the front flower, make an appropriately sized (just barely smaller than your opening in your casting) "stem" from sculpty clay (several times longer than the actual needed stem length) and re-invest face down. After removing the clay, fill with the same frit as you used (or a piece of appropriate glass rod) and re-fire. Clean up the flower with stem, place face down, put the silver casting over your flower and mark where the stem protrudes up through the casting. Grind back the stem to just about the same height as the opening.
Out of curiousity, what would you recommend to grind with? I've got a Dremel at hand, and no access to "real" equipment that I know of...
I was thinking about a regular stained glass grinder or disc. I imagine it could be done with a dremel and a proper bit (and time!).
3. Invest the flower part again face down (shallow this time, not covering the back of the flower, just enough to keep the shape and details of the front of the flower).
4. Around the inside of the hole in your silver casting you will need to paint a layer of strong "Bead Release".
5. Position your glass leaf on top. Depending on the surface of the back of your silver casting, you may need to either coat any protrusions with bead release or if it's realtively smooth, a piece of thin-fire cut to the leaf shape may work. Basically anything to keep the metal and the glass from adhering to each other.
6. Fire. With good temperature control, you should be able to tack fuse the back of the leaf to the stem. Even with good temp. control and slow, long firing, you may lose some details on your leaf.
You get the genius cap today... I would have NEVER thought of that! I'm definately going to try this again, once I have the all-metal one done for credit...
7. Carefully, carefully anneal. Remember that part of the glass is in a mold, part shielded by the silver and part exposed to the elements.
8. Soak the piece (start with water) to remove the bead release.
The main problem I can see with this is that the flower and stem could potentially spin. This could be solved by the shape of the stem and or small bumps (decorative elements) on the leaf side (outside the shape of the leaf) that would keep the glass in place.
Yeah, that could be a problem... OR a potential design element... hmm...
If the stem (and corresponding hole in the casting) were shaped more like a trapezoid or rhomboid or I guess even a plain old square, it should prevent spinning.
The other problem could see is if the firing is too hot, the silver casting could slump down into the front flower and again become adhered (you may have to use a separator there as well).
If I did the leaf in fine silver, then I don't think that it would slump... I could certainly be wrong, but I think that only happens with glass and similar things... because glass has "softening points" where metal has definate melting points...
I was thinking more about the places where the glass flower was touching the silver.
I just had one more thought. You may be able to use a "flux" between the stem and the back of the leaf to lower the temp needed to fuse the two pieces together. Maybe someone else can guide her to an appropriate product? I was thinking "Back Magic" or the Sunshine Ferro product?
Flux for glass? Awesome! I hadn't even thought to ask about one...
I hope this helps (please remember I haven't actually done this, so this is all just theory from my head)!
Chris Rogahn
*blush*YoDuh wrote:"Sorry, the page you requested was not found. "
Yo
) works with stones and precious metals.... and she GAVE me two Burmese rubies! A 2.5 mm and a 3.0 mm. They aren't gem quality (i couldn't have taken them!), but they look great, and I'll definately use one for this! Of course, I can't solder and set it for another week and a half, as I just got on spring break, but it's going on!
n I even like your background material.