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Amended Challenge

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Jackie Beckman
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Amended Challenge

Postby Jackie Beckman » Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:48 pm

Per suggestion, I moved this thread from the classified section. (How did it even start in classified, I wonder?) Anyway, if you have been following the discussion that starts on page 2 of the recycled bottle thread, I've moved it - it's changed too much to be over there. Below is my last post in that thread:

OK – I’ll admit it, I’m a weasel. I’m backing out of my challenge with Brock. Here’s why. I’m not really interested in practicing a technique right now. Especially a technique I know I won’t utilize in the future. My original intent was not to make Brock suffer through trying to create something in “my styleâ€

Brock
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Postby Brock » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:15 pm

Depending on the response, maybe we can take all of our “alterâ€
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Barbara Muth
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Postby Barbara Muth » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:21 pm

I am willing to give it a try. Nothing like thinking outside the box.

barbara
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Lisa Allen
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Postby Lisa Allen » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:59 pm

Ooouuu, I am IN. Just what I needed to shake things up a bit. But I am wondering what is off limits for me. Obviously I use tons of color, but I go nuts with black and white too? Something asymetrical would definitely send me reeling and maybe less movement too. Any thought before I begin this anti-lisa piece?

I think that they all should be donated to WGW for the auction.

Lisa
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Jackie Beckman
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Postby Jackie Beckman » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:07 pm

Any thought before I begin this anti-lisa piece?


Ok - here's one for ya, Lisa . . . no patternbars. :shock:

Brock
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Postby Brock » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:07 pm

Any thought before I begin this anti-lisa piece?

Something with cats?

The Overbearing Presence
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Postby Havi » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:08 pm

altough you do not know me, I allow myself to enter this conversation/challenge.
a. I'd like to say that the red pieces are very beautiful in my humble oppinion.- as a "color addict" I paradoxically enjoy sometimes playing with different tones/hues of the same color, including various textures that enhance the richness of the color and the piece. in glass as well as in printmaking, transparensies and overlaping of color - or colors deriving from different arrangements can be very exciting.

b. I think that "thinking out of the box" is a very fruitful challenge , some examples - I usually work in a most abstract way with no relation to world of imagery. However, I once worked with someone who challenged me to do something else - he asked me to make a sculpture which I hated (boy, that was tough) and then he said to me - do whatever you want - make an object - a chair - I made a chair with rugs deeped in plaster - and the final result was - me again, from an absolutely different angle.

c. However, right now I am bothered with making "clouds" (from glass ) - which seems a very complex subject with millions of possibilities, and I want to make as many dealing with different aspects of color, shape, texture - etc.
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Barbara Muth
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Postby Barbara Muth » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:11 pm

I just have to comment. I LOVE Lisa's new signature quote. And Brock's too. Guess I have to put my thinking cap on....

Barbara
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Lisa Allen
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Postby Lisa Allen » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:20 pm

Jackie Beckman wrote:
Any thought before I begin this anti-lisa piece?


Ok - here's one for ya, Lisa . . . no patternbars. :shock:


Yeah, I get that part, BRAT. :lol:
Lisa Allen

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Lisa Allen
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Postby Lisa Allen » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:24 pm

Brock wrote:Any thought before I begin this anti-lisa piece?

Something with cats?

The Overbearing Presence


Very funny, Overbearing Presence. I see that I am on my own deciding what is not me.

Lisa
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Don Burt
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Re: Amended Challenge

Postby Don Burt » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:27 pm

[quote="Jackie Beckman"]
clip
A while back I read a class description that BE had put out. I don’t remember the class, but the phrase that stuck in my head was something like, “In this class you’ll learn to create without relying on the flash and (some other derogatory term) of color.â€

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Postby Dani » Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:05 pm

Don, I love that last sentence! ROFLO. I know just what you mean. One of my favorite exercises is to create a piece using black, my favorite color, and my least fave. I like Jackie's exercise because I ordinarily like formality, ornament, and well thought-out design... and color. I might just try something if I can find a decent olive drab green and break loose with some wild linear painted piece. Now that I think of it, that's what my work in high school was like..... curious.

Linda Reed
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Postby Linda Reed » Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:29 am

The alter-style is a fun idea. It will be very interesting to see what people come up with.

I'd also like to see a venue for Bob's idea sometime;

How about instead of work in someone else's style (which is a great challenge)... how about deciding on a passage of prose/poetry/lyrics ... and each person interpret that passage in their own style. Cheers, Bob


It is always facinating to me to watch what happens in a class when people have the same 'assignment' and it comes out a dozen different ways. It would be even more different if the challenge was to interpret a non-defined mental picture (poetry/music/quote) into a physical manifestation... The 'big' artists on the board tend to have disctinctive styles - so watching them create outside their comfort zone would be informative. Also, seeing how different stylists interpret an idea within their comfort zones would be pretty interesting. (Not to release Brock from a freeform challenge Jackie - not my intent to intrude there :twisted: )

A thought anyway.

Linda

Tony Smith
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Postby Tony Smith » Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:33 am

I'm in... now I have to figure how to do a piece with no sandblasting, no texture and bright colors.... hmmmm :-k

Tony
The tightrope between being strange and being creative is too narrow to walk without occasionally landing on both sides..." Scott Berkun

Bert Weiss
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Postby Bert Weiss » Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:08 am

I have a project on my list that meets Jackie's criteria. I am making dichroic cabinet pulls for my kitchen. The dichro is on order at Marty D's. These pieces will be small, colorful, opaque, not cut with a glass cutter, and made with BE. I think the texture will all be internal as they will be cabs with smooth tops and bottoms.

This is my second such project. The first were tiles made with BE dichro...
Bert

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Jackie Beckman
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Postby Jackie Beckman » Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:39 am

The notion of 'trying to get my point across' bugs me. To imply that we can separate artwork into components of intent, process, formal elements, sentiment, intent, and material...and then rank the sentimental intent higher (more valuable or significant) than the object as craft is ....its what wrong with Art.


Why should that notion bug you Don? Intent IS more significant than execution. Maybe it just bothers you in terms of art. Look at it this way - What if when Martin Luther King wrote the "I have a dream . . ." speech, it was in sloppy penmanship and filled with spelling errors? Would it make his ideas less valid? Of course not - it's the intent, it's always the intent that matters most. From the way we create art, to the way we charge criminals! What was the intent?

What was your intent when you searched high and low, test after test, for the perfect red for the santa hat on your mouse? Why did it matter? Red is red, right? For whatever reason, it was important to you. One red conveyed a different feeling than the other? It was happier or brighter or warmer? It was the red you saw in your mind when you first thought about the piece?

But I don't expect my favorite artists to verbalize a thesis and then try to find ways to express it. I think the thesis is less valuable than the work, the piece, the whole.


The thesis is the jumping board for the piece. Perhaps when all is said and done and the piece is hanging on the wall, the actual thesis behind the piece becomes secondary, but if that's true, it's only because the artist was able to convey those ideas so well into the final work. The final work is a sum of all those parts - intent, process, materials, etc., but the piece couldn't exist without the intent, right?

It's almost like you know that's true, but don't want to have to hear about that part - It's your very own "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

I was on the phone the other day with one of the most respected artists in our field. He said, "To me, your work is about . . . ." and continued to describe almost word for word what I have stated in my artist statement, without having ever read it. That was huge to me - it means I AM getting my point across, and that's important to me. It validates what I'm doing. It says to me that I am saying it well, it says also that he is insightful and "read my thesis" the way I intended. That makes the work successful to me more so than nailing any particular process would.

Beethoven doesn't need to work with bus farts and cappucino-maker noise. Its not cheating to use violins.


That's very funny - I like that. But really, if he read something that said "Naturally he can compose and play because he has at his disposal the finest instruments the world has to offer" to prove to himself that wasn't true, he just may have done a piece with bus-farts and cappucino-maker noise. :lol:

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Postby Bill Zweifel » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:27 am

Fascinating idea, count me in, an unwoven weave with no textures in bright dramatic colors, sounds interesting.
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Brock
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Postby Brock » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:48 am

Bill Zweifel wrote:Fascinating idea, count me in, an unwoven weave with no textures in bright dramatic colors, sounds interesting.


Everybody is scared of you Bill. Big learning curve on your technique.
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Don Burt
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Postby Don Burt » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:57 am

Intent IS more significant than execution. Maybe it just bothers you in terms of art.

Yes, only in terms of art. I don't accept the ML King analogy. Thats not the kind of art I'm talking about.

What was your intent when you searched high and low,..red santa hat

The intent was important, it was linked to the media, the object, the process. I suppose in that case it was the most important element. But it doesn't have to be. To state that it is most important is dangerous and breeds insincerity, as it compels artists to add content to pieces where it is unwarranted.


The thesis is the jumping board for the piece

Not in the best work. The best is where it all meets in synergy. It doesn't start with the thesis. Picasso's bicycle seat and handlebars: A formal triumph, a humorous reuse of objects, and an extension of his personal mythology. Didn't start with the thesis.

. Perhaps when all is said and done and the piece is hanging on the wall, the actual thesis behind the piece becomes secondary, but if that's true, it's only because the artist was able to convey those ideas so well into the final work. The final work is a sum of all those parts - intent, process, materials, etc., but the piece couldn't exist without the intent, right?

Right


It's almost like you know that's true, but don't want to have to hear about that part - It's your very own "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.

Not sure what you mean


I was on the phone the other day with one of the most respected artists in our field. He said, "To me, your work is about . . . ." and continued to describe almost word for word what I have stated in my artist statement, without having ever read it. That was huge to me - it means I AM getting my point across, and that's important to me. It validates what I'm doing. It says to me that I am saying it well, it says also that he is insightful and "read my thesis" the way I intended. That makes the work successful to me more so than nailing any particular process would.

Your work can't be summed-up in an artist statement. It would be less significant of it could be.

I dislike insincerity. I dislike value-added intellectualism in art (craft). I don't regard sentimentality as insincerity. To me, sentimentality is expressing an emotion because you like the emotion, or you like the idea of the emotion, rather than actually feel it. My work is often sentimental. Little bunnies, aawwwww. I obviously have no problem with that. What I don't like is when somebody values the mental masturbation of artists like Sol Lewitt or anybody who manipulates intellectual ideas, over the formal or evocative beauty of craft. Its not better. It shouldn't be more valuable. And we artists are the main culprits for ascribing it that higher value.

Art is entertainment as much as anything. If we find it intellectually challenging, we like it more. But the worst art is that which fakes being intellectually challenging, by using superfluous content.

I'm not sure what I'm arguing about. In my gut I know its OK to make beautiful things. The impact of the piece at the non-intellectual level is not subordinate to or less valuable than social commentary, rational message, puns, whatever. I can't recall anything specifically you said, Jackie, that should have set me off about this. But it was fun typing, so I may as well post it.

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Postby Dani » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:59 am

"Why should that notion bug you Don? Intent IS more significant than execution. "

Will have to disagree with you on that one.... I've turned away far too many artists at the gallery whose intent was admirable but whose work was really bad and not anywhere near gallery ready. Good art is a combination of many factors, none of them necessarily less important than intent or even content. Poor design and execution can ruin a work with potential. I think that "heart and soul" stuff is highly over-rated in Western philosophy at the expense of good and practical craftsmanship which has its own value without being self-important.


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