matte finish

Ann Demko · Post by **Ann Demko** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:54 am

OK here it goes. I have sandblasted a sample of glass to see if the end results will be what I anticipate. I want a matte or satin finish. My questions are do I spray with Spray A then put into kiln or will that turn my finish shiny? Do I get the look I want at slumping temps or at a higher temp say...tack fuse? I tried to find info in the search pages but I don't seem to be able decipher which headings apply. Thanks a bunch. Ann

Jackie Beckman · Post by **Jackie Beckman** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:15 am

No, don't apply Spray A. The temp you'll bring that piece to won't mature the spray. Besides, if you want a satin finish, if you could mature the spray, it would only make it shine again. So, just bring it up to low slump temps, and that should do it.

Jackie

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:16 am

Ann

I'm not sure what will happen with Spray A at slumping temperatures since I've never used any oversprays or glazes. My understanding is that Spray A matures at fusing temperatures and will gloss ove the surface... sandblast and all. Back Magic on the other hand matures at slumping temps and should cause the surface to smooth out at the lower temperatures.

I sandblast before slumping to get the sealed, matte finish as opposed to the powdery looking finish of a freshly sandblasted piece of glass. As you approach fusing temperatures, the glass starts to become mottled, then glossy if you hold long enough.

Tony

Ann Demko · Post by **Ann Demko** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:01 pm

Boy you sure can tell a newbie once removed. duh I should have realized you couldn't use Spray A because of the temps involved. Someday I will learn to think in more detail. Thank you, thank you. Time is so precious since I only have one or two, if I'm lucky, weekend days to work on my projects and to use a whole day to create a mistake and then take one or two days to correct is soooooo frustrating. I APPRECIATEyou all. Ann

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:05 pm

Ann Demko wrote:OK here it goes. I have sandblasted a sample of glass to see if the end results will be what I anticipate. I want a matte or satin finish. My questions are do I spray with Spray A then put into kiln or will that turn my finish shiny? Do I get the look I want at slumping temps or at a higher temp say...tack fuse? I tried to find info in the search pages but I don't seem to be able decipher which headings apply. Thanks a bunch. Ann

You won't need any overglaze at the bending temps if devit is what you fear. (Back Magic is full of lead and that creates a host of problems that I don't want to deal with). I get the matte finish I desire at 1200 F. I run a bending schedule (typically) of 100 dph from 1000 F to 1250 F. The work is usually fully slumped well before I reach 1250 F, but I run the full schedule to get the (as Tony calls it) sealed matte finish. It's almost like Vellum and is really nice.

You will probably need to run a few tests with differing top temps to learn what schedule you should use to get the kind of finish you want. Lower temps = more texture, higher temps = softer glossier texture. I'd start at 1200 and go from there.

S. Klein · Post by **S. Klein** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:15 pm

I sandblast with 220 alum oxide, than hand lap with 400 diamond pad and/or 400 silicon carbide. I do this before kilnforming or in the case of a flat piece before matte firepolishing. My kilnforming or polishing temps differ with colors and range from 1140 to 1190...........steve

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:27 pm

Hi Steve,

I had heard that you used the handpads, but didn't realize that you used them after sandblasting. Does it soften the blasted texture? Whenever I've tried to do that, I find I can't hit all of the low spots on the glass with the pad and end up with an uneven appearance.

Tony

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:55 pm

Tony and Steve- I just tested a sample of Robert Stephan's (HIS Glassworks) ammonium bifluoride stuff for sandblasted surfaces. Tested a quart, bought 10 gallons. Set up a ventilation hood, got gloves and apron and safety glasses, tubs for dipping and rinsing, baking soda for neutralizing the rinse water. Sounds like a major hassle but it's worth it. Blast with 180 SiCa, leave vinyl masking on, rinse n dip. 10 minutes in the acid, dip in rinse tub, wash and dry. Peel masking. Sign n Go. No more Armorall! Talk about Cheatin' Technology!!

I wasn't gonna share this, but it's too good to keep to myself!!!!!!!

Nickie Jordan · Post by **Nickie Jordan** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 1:34 am

Marty wrote:Tony and Steve- I just tested a sample of Robert Stephan's (HIS Glassworks) ammonium bifluoride stuff for sandblasted surfaces. Tested a quart, bought 10 gallons. Set up a ventilation hood, got gloves and apron and safety glasses, tubs for dipping and rinsing, baking soda for neutralizing the rinse water. Sounds like a major hassle but it's worth it. Blast with 180 SiCa, leave vinyl masking on, rinse n dip. 10 minutes in the acid, dip in rinse tub, wash and dry. Peel masking. Sign n Go. No more Armorall! Talk about Cheatin' Technology!!

I wasn't gonna share this, but it's too good to keep to myself!!!!!!!

That's interesting, Marty -
Is it possible to explain an example of application - i.e.sandblasted flashed glass ? What about shelf life, do you know ? - Nickie

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 7:28 am

Marty,

Does the Ammonium Biflourite essentially dissolve the surface, and glazing over the texture of the blasted surface? Or does it give the surface a uniform "whiteness" like the etching creams do? I didn't see any information on the product on HIS website.

Tony

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:38 am

HIS calls it Vari-Etch. It seems to work best on sandblasted surfaces- in the tests I ran it mottled glossy surfaces, but I may not have left the glass in the bath long enough (that's not what I was looking for).
It just smooths out the blasted surface, leaves it like velvet! I was tired of sending out care-and-feeding info with my work, and getting calls from people who had Windex-ed the Armorall off.
Regarding 'whiteness'- the final finish isn't quite as 'wetted-looking' as a coat of armorall or mineral oil but it's close. The opal BE colors come up a little muted, but it works for me. No fingerprints.
Shelf life is supposed to be long- it better be 'cause the stuff ain't cheap.
I'm using it straight, you can dilute it and just soak longer. I wipe most of the excess off the glass (over the acid bath) both to save the stuff and to keep the rinse bath from getting too acidic too fast. After a run I cover the acid bath, neutralize the rinse with baking soda and dump it down the drain with lots of water.

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:40 am

Marty wrote:Tony and Steve- I just tested a sample of Robert Stephan's (HIS Glassworks) ammonium bifluoride stuff for sandblasted surfaces. Tested a quart, bought 10 gallons. Set up a ventilation hood, got gloves and apron and safety glasses, tubs for dipping and rinsing, baking soda for neutralizing the rinse water. Sounds like a major hassle but it's worth it. Blast with 180 SiCa, leave vinyl masking on, rinse n dip. 10 minutes in the acid, dip in rinse tub, wash and dry. Peel masking. Sign n Go. No more Armorall! Talk about Cheatin' Technology!!

I wasn't gonna share this, but it's too good to keep to myself!!!!!!!

Marty

Can you dunk a piece of clean float glass and tell us if it comes out blotchy.
Lerite is designed to satin etch perfume and liquor bottles. It takes only about a minute but does not look good on float glass. This formula sounds like it is gentler.

In my experience ammonuim bifluorite and muriatic acid did not really need a vent hood. Is this significantly different?

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 10:02 am

Marty,

Still can't find any information on the HIS website for vari-etch OR ammonium biflouride. Does it come as a solution or as a powder to be mixed with water?

Otherwise it sounds like it's worth trying. Do you know what the pH of the solution is? Did you decide to use a vapor hood because of the fumes or was that just precautionary?

Tony

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:29 pm

Tony Smith wrote:Marty,

Still can't find any information on the HIS website for vari-etch OR ammonium biflouride. Does it come as a solution or as a powder to be mixed with water?

Otherwise it sounds like it's worth trying. Do you know what the pH of the solution is? Did you decide to use a vapor hood because of the fumes or was that just precautionary?

Tony

Bob from HIS was offering samples of this stuff about a month ago on the Crafts Web board. Don't know if he plans to sell it on his site or not. I think he is still getting feedback from the people that have tried it. Looks like Marty got a sample and then bought some.

Ron

S. Klein · Post by **S. Klein** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:50 pm

Tony: Yes, I use the pads after sanblasting. Some pieces have high and low spots so I have to switch to 400 grit silicon carbide, plenty of water, 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper with a sponge between my hand and the paper, and finally TIME.

I'm so taken with the finish both in appearance and touch that for me it's worth the time. I have used a Makita vibrating sander with a heavy sponge under it as well, but there is just something about doing the hand work that I like...........nutsforcoldworking

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:52 pm

Thanks for the additional information Steve.

I know what you mean about the hand rubbed finish... it's so soft looking, it makes you want to touch it...

I had been experimenting with the rubbed finish, but wasn't sure how to deal with the low spots, so I started using an MK stone polisher with a 60 grit diamond pad to work the entire surface flat... then worked my way up the grits from there. Unfortunately, when I finally got the piece rinsed and dried off, I still had low spots... it's just that I couldn't see them until the piece was dry. I like the idea of using the wet/dry sandpaper. It would make it a lot easier to follow the minor variations in the fused glass surface. Do you stop after the 600 grit?

Tony

S. Klein · Post by **S. Klein** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:08 am

depending on the color, I sometimes stop with 400 grit silicon carbide powder (applied with 600 grit sandpaper). I haven't gone further that 600 grit silicon carbide powder. As long as no scratches appear I'm happy..........steve

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 12:44 am

Bert- I'll try to dunk some float tomorrow and will post results. I don't know if a hood is absolutely necessary with this stuff but there was a pungent odor that I could definitely live without. Also, the room had no ventilation before except for a standard bathroom vent fan.
I had looked into Lerite but decided against it for several reasons: it required serious venting, pre- and post- baths, was more toxic than HIS' stuff, and I would have had to buy an enormous amount (and I don't want to be a distributor of anything but my finished work!).
Marty

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:11 am

Marty wrote:Bert- I'll try to dunk some float tomorrow and will post results. I don't know if a hood is absolutely necessary with this stuff but there was a pungent odor that I could definitely live without. Also, the room had no ventilation before except for a standard bathroom vent fan.
I had looked into Lerite but decided against it for several reasons: it required serious venting, pre- and post- baths, was more toxic than HIS' stuff, and I would have had to buy an enormous amount (and I don't want to be a distributor of anything but my finished work!).
Marty

Marty

I bought 50 lb of Lerite which was not too expensive. I used it in 5 gallon buckets in an unvented basement with lids on the buckets when not in use. I have heavy rubber gloves and a plastic apron. The only problem was that it looked sucky with float glass.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about your new stuff.

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:22 pm

Check it out at

http://www.hisglassworks.com/pages/varietch.html

WarmGlass.com

matte finish

matte finish

matte finish

Re: matte finish

Acid

Re: Acid

more on acid

Re: Acid

float test

Re: float test