Separators - a comprehensive thread - Page 2 - WarmGlass.com

Separators - a comprehensive thread

This is the main board for discussing general techniques, tools, and processes for fusing, slumping, and related kiln-forming activities.

Moderators: Tony Smith, Brad Walker

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Sara
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: Magdalena, New Mexico, USA

Postby Sara » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:37 am

Charlie,

this is interesting stuff. it has been poured. Each time you use it you need to use a lambswool buff to clean it off. you can carve it. we sliced one shelf up to make dams and that works fabulous (used the one where the bubbles from the pour damaged the top surface) the one with the light scratches from the way they were packed are "just deep enough" to annoy and not let us get smooth surface (plus the corners were badly broken again from packing). We drilled holes at 2" intervals all over the dang thing and it still off gasses. Drilling is something that was suggested by the company. The shelves are pricy. Each 12"x12" runs about $75, and I figure well worth, especially if they've figured out the off gassing.

Big annoyance is customer service :( I've spoken with the owners, asked where my replacement shelves are and each time they say something to the effect that they got waylaid in shipping/packing/miscommunication and the shelves will go right out then we never get anything. Upside is they did not charge us for the damaged ones we go so we've been able to experiment on their nickle.

I've gotten tired of phoning and asking :) and they'd asked me to do an endorsement, which if I could ever get the good product I'd still be happy to do.

My husband also asked about being a distributor and like Brad discovered that it was a huge outlay of cash for a very small return on the dollar and we decided to decline. As with many startup companies hopefully this all will change. Hey I've been known to never send a catalog out after being asked so maybe this is my payback! :oops:

Sara

Kevin Midgley
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Postby Kevin Midgley » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:40 am

A note on Zirconium. It carries naturally occurring radioactive elements of the uranium and thorium series. Radiological hazard by inhalation of dust. Although low radiation level, consult MSDS!.

If the above quote from Hugo is factual, I wouldn't have the stuff in my studio. There is no way that dust wouldn't get spread around the studio. Thank you for the warning, Hugo!

Hugo Gavarini
Posts: 49
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Location: Patagonia Argentina

Postby Hugo Gavarini » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:57 am

Another thing U could look at is titanium dioxide

Again very high melt temps

I do have some further ideas if U R on the quest 4 the elusive holly grail of

Mirror Wash tm

Hello Brian,

Thank you for the Ti tip. As you know, I am just the Patagonia chairman of the HGSS - Holly Grail Seekers Society.
Hugo

charlie
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Postby charlie » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:59 am

Sara wrote:Charlie,

this is interesting stuff. it has been poured. Each time you use it you need to use a lambswool buff to clean it off. you can carve it. we sliced one shelf up to make dams and that works fabulous (used the one where the bubbles from the pour damaged the top surface) the one with the light scratches from the way they were packed are "just deep enough" to annoy and not let us get smooth surface (plus the corners were badly broken again from packing). Sara


well, that's interesting. this means you could use a car buffer and cerium, for instance, and bring it to a mirror polish. you'd never get any marks on the back of anything again.

if it's poured, then maybe they could use it to pour molds like they do with slipcasting pottery, and then you'd have a mold that you'd never get any marks on the back of a bowl again. :!:

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:05 am

Actually, it's easier than using cerium oxide. You can just use cheesecloth to smooth by hand, or if you want something really smooth than use a buffer attached to a regular drill (or just a car buffer without the cerium).

I've fired the sample shelf I have four times and so far haven't had any sticking or other problems. The only "maintenance" I've done is wiping with a cheesecloth. I want to get several dozen firings under my belt before I make any final conclusions, but so far I've been happy.

Sara
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: Magdalena, New Mexico, USA

Postby Sara » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:52 am

Charlie,

whilst you're correct that yes you could get extremely smooth molds when I talked with them about that it was cost prohibitive :( maybe they are changing their pricing posture on this. The set up charges were huge, even for a large single kiln shelf they wanted set up. ouch :?

just read Brad's post below and he's right about the ease. the company hadn't suggested cheesecloth when I got mine, they were still suggesting the lambs wool.

yet another chance to watch a budding idea evolve.

Sara

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:58 am

They've also told me that you can work the shelves with woodworking tools, but I haven't tried that.

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
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Postby Brian and Jenny Blanthorn » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:05 pm

Brad Walker wrote:They've also told me that you can work the shelves with woodworking tools, but I haven't tried that.


This sounds great

Is it dangerous 2 sand

n whats it like with ' corosive ' stuff like fluxes / copper etc

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Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:11 pm

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn wrote:Is it dangerous 2 sand

n whats it like with ' corosive ' stuff like fluxes / copper etc

Image


There's nothing in their materials about safety, wearing a mask, or anything like that. I've asked for an MSDS, so will see what that contains.

I doubt if they've tried every flux you have, Brian, so can't answer on how it handles corrosive materials.

Cynthia

Postby Cynthia » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:55 pm

Brad Walker wrote:I'm currently running experiments with the Fusion Shield kiln shelves, which don't require ANY kilnwash. Early results are promising, but I want to do a few more tests. So far the only major drawback is that the shelves are expensive.

I'll report more when I'm finished with my testing.


I would be very interested in your results. Could you post a new thread about it when you are done so I won't miss it?

:?: What is the cost? Could I get a solid shelf that is 28" x 58"? How thick is it and how much does it weigh? What is it like (similar to mullite, or fiber), does it warp, does it promote fogging or devit, what is it made of? Does it reflect the heat like fiber or hold the heat like mullite? Is it a good shelf for a fiber kiln? Should I quit asking questions?

I would be very interested in this product if it is a permanent shelf that doesn't ding up, cruch up or warp like fiber...doesn't stick to the glass and tear up, and if it can be purchased as one solid shelf for a larger kiln.

I'll shut up now.

I'll wait for your results, but wanted to throw out my questions off the top.

Sara
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: Magdalena, New Mexico, USA

Postby Sara » Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:03 pm

Hi Cynthia,

yep I was excited too. Like I said afore this is EXPENSIVE!!!!! :cry: A 12"X12" is $75.00, it will ding and scratch so care must be taken and I'm thinking fairly fragile.

They had a huge set up charge to make a custom shelf and believe me it made me do a rethink and I often tend to absorb higher costs :oops:

Best thing may be for you to call and talk with the company. Things can change.

Good luck,

Sara

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:45 pm

I will post my results as soon as I've finished with the various tests.

Right now the company offers several standard sizes, the largest of which is 20" square and costs $195 retail. I believe that custom sizes are available, but they're not cheap.

The product is about 1" thick, one side is smooth, the other less so. There is no MSDS available, but the company assures me that it is safe and only a simple mask and eye protection is required if you machine it.

I have asked Jim Reid, the company rep, to post on the Classified board so he can answer questions directly.

jread

Fusion Shield

Postby jread » Sat Mar 15, 2003 5:57 am

:lol: Good morning folks....
Sara ....it's me Jim Read with Fusion Shield...Yes it looks like we got everything worked out...I will follow up on your shelves first thing Monday Morning. The only major problem that we have had ( since revisiting the bubble issue) is what I have dubbed the "Ace Ventura Factor". Packaging of the product has (as you know) become a major concern. Thanks to our friendly boys and girls in their brown outfits, we have literally seen our product looking like it got kicked off the Empire State building. Am pretty sure we have found a way to protect the shield in transit and am hoping that our new and latest attempt to foil those who would do our product harm will work. For future reference anyone contacting me at jread@fusionshield ( thanks Brian!), please either cc. at jhrd.earthlink.net or mail me direct at the same address ( that way I can answer /or chat at 4 am !!) Thanks for your imput Sara!! PS. Brad the site looks great..Thank you as well!!

jread

Fusion Shield

Postby jread » Sat Mar 15, 2003 6:14 am

I'll try to make sure we use spellcheck for future mailings. Customer Service will improve as " this idea evolves"....the response from everyone as well as the patience that has been shown is greatly appreciated and I will do my darndest to improve as we move forward. We have been fielding so many calls and request that is almost overwhelming!!Regarding the custom sizes...as the product is machinable , we are now producing larger sheets that can be purchased and then cut to fit application by the artist(s). Can't do anything about the shiping time yet, but will continue to make an effort to shorten it!! Thanks everyone...Jim

jread

Fusion Shield

Postby jread » Sat Mar 15, 2003 6:18 am

Did it again: SHIPPING not SHIPING...way early on a Saturday morning to be typing so much!!

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
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Re: Fusion Shield

Postby Brian and Jenny Blanthorn » Sat Mar 15, 2003 9:21 am

jread wrote:Did it again: SHIPPING not SHIPING...way early on a Saturday morning to be typing so much!!


Jim

It appears that the shelf is a little soft

Is it possible 2 harden this with rigidizer with out loosing the releasing / good surface qualities

If U want some distributors in europe I can suggest a few

Dont B 2 concerned about the spelling there R some here who also cannot

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Sara
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: Magdalena, New Mexico, USA

Postby Sara » Sat Mar 15, 2003 11:07 am

Yo Jim

Thanks for the information. David and I can't wait to get those shelves, and as soon as we do we'll be singing their praise. We cut the damaged ones up and tried as dams for pattern bars and they worked fabulous, so here's another product size for you to offer:)

Brad isn't getting the bubbles, does this mean that you've solved that challenge too?

Anxiously waiting :)

Sara

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Sat Mar 15, 2003 11:38 am

Sara wrote:Brad isn't getting the bubbles, does this mean that you've solved that challenge too?


The jury's still out on that. My latest test firing got fairly severe bubbles.

I'll report more fully when I know more and can do a few more tests. And I'm sure Jim will let us know his thoughts, too.

Jim Read

Fusion Shield

Postby Jim Read » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:11 am

There was a recent question presented to me regarding the presence of "ziron" in Fusion Shield. Rest assured there is no "ziron" or any other radioactive material in our product. FS is a non-hazerdous material that requires only minimal, industry standard protection ( dust mask, eye protection) and this is only needed when cutting or machining the shelf.

rodney
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PHD in warm glass

Postby rodney » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:02 pm

is there any place on the web, besides here, where you can get a PHD in warm glass, I DONT THINK SOOOOOOOOO

rodney


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