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coloring tempered glass

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Mark Selleck
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coloring tempered glass

Postby Mark Selleck » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:58 am

I have a prospective customer who wants etched and colored panels for a shower enclosure. I'm wondering about any technical problems that would prevent one from firing paints/stains onto tempered float glass. I'm looking at doing panels using 1/4" or 3/8" float, approximate panel sizes 28"x58". I'm also wondering about market pricing on such a product. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

gone

Postby gone » Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:52 am

If you fire it, it will no longer be tempered. Bert will probably have more for you in the morning.

Els

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
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Re: coloring tempered glass

Postby Brian and Jenny Blanthorn » Thu Apr 24, 2003 4:35 am

Mark Selleck wrote:I have a prospective customer who wants etched and colored panels for a shower enclosure. I'm wondering about any technical problems that would prevent one from firing paints/stains onto tempered float glass. I'm looking at doing panels using 1/4" or 3/8" float, approximate panel sizes 28"x58". I'm also wondering about market pricing on such a product. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,


Better realy 2 colour n etch B4, then temper it
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Bert Weiss
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Re: coloring tempered glass

Postby Bert Weiss » Thu Apr 24, 2003 11:17 am

Mark Selleck wrote:I have a prospective customer who wants etched and colored panels for a shower enclosure. I'm wondering about any technical problems that would prevent one from firing paints/stains onto tempered float glass. I'm looking at doing panels using 1/4" or 3/8" float, approximate panel sizes 28"x58". I'm also wondering about market pricing on such a product. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,


Mark

I am still working on the job from hell using enameled 3/8" tempered float glass that is textured as well as enameled. There have been more problems than I could have dreamed of. It has been almost a year. I have 8 of 10 panels complete, which means that it can be done, just not without a steep learning curve. One good thing is that I have not lost any panels in the tempering line, but I was firing them enamel side down and it did mark them.

The simplest way I know to do it is with Organic bottle coatings from Ferro. These come in an array of colors, transparent and opaque. They can be sprayed, painted, or combination, or screened. I like to spray and stipple. Stippling gives me a kind of cats paw. It evens out any differences in density from the spray. They are fired to 400ºF with a half hour soak. The only down side to this product is that it is not a glossy smooth surface. It is a bit toothy. I wouldn't put it on the water side of the shower. Of course you need a big kiln.

Once you heat tempered glass above the strain point, it is no longer tempered, so you have to enamel,anneal, blast, then temper. Or you could temper, apply bottle coatings, bake, then blast. Another alternative would be to apply epoxy paints, blast, and be done with it. Or UV curing bottle coatings.
Bert

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Mark Selleck
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Postby Mark Selleck » Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:39 am

Thanks for everyone's help. Bert, what you've suggested is what I was looking for, a way to color the already tempered panels without going above strain point. I've investigated getting panels tempered after firing enamels and blasting, but no one around here will do it. They say the chances of blowing them up in the tempering line are too high, plus they're worried that the colors might come off on their rollers. I could get the colored/blasted panels laminated, but they want to laminate with the ornamental surface inside, and I don't think a frosted surface would show in such a situation. Any experience with that? They use a liquid laminating process, and I'd expect the liquid to fill the blasted texture to the point it would disappear. Since you're already doing ONE such job, would you like another?? :D

Mark

Mark Selleck
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Postby Mark Selleck » Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:39 am

Thanks for everyone's help. Bert, what you've suggested is what I was looking for, a way to color the already tempered panels without going above strain point. I've investigated getting panels tempered after firing enamels and blasting, but no one around here will do it. They say the chances of blowing them up in the tempering line are too high, plus they're worried that the colors might come off on their rollers. I could get the colored/blasted panels laminated, but they want to laminate with the ornamental surface inside, and I don't think a frosted surface would show in such a situation. Any experience with that? They use a liquid laminating process, and I'd expect the liquid to fill the blasted texture to the point it would disappear. Since you're already doing ONE such job, would you like another?? :D

Mark

Bert Weiss
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Postby Bert Weiss » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:30 am

Mark Selleck wrote:Thanks for everyone's help. Bert, what you've suggested is what I was looking for, a way to color the already tempered panels without going above strain point. I've investigated getting panels tempered after firing enamels and blasting, but no one around here will do it. They say the chances of blowing them up in the tempering line are too high, plus they're worried that the colors might come off on their rollers. I could get the colored/blasted panels laminated, but they want to laminate with the ornamental surface inside, and I don't think a frosted surface would show in such a situation. Any experience with that? They use a liquid laminating process, and I'd expect the liquid to fill the blasted texture to the point it would disappear. Since you're already doing ONE such job, would you like another?? :D

Mark


Mark

I have not exactly done it, but there are sealers used before liquid laminating that are supposed to keep the blasted areas looking blasted. They get less white but do not disappear. You can also color with liquid laminating resin. The resin can be tinted and screen printed on one sheet of glass. Then you laminate using clear resin and everything is encased in the middle. I see this as a good alternative. If your liquid laminator has experience doing the clear resin, you can probably work to figure out how to do the tint thing. The resin manufacturers sell the tints.

About the tempering thing. I am most fortunate to work with a company that is totally cooperative with my envelope pushing glass. We have never had a colored piece blow up. The only pieces I have lost in the tempering line came from bumps on the edge getting caught on the rollers on the way out of the heating chamber. Once I learned to avoid those edge blips and we learned to run the glass through on a skewed angle, I have had a perfect record. As to the rollers, they did mark my enameled surface, but they did not pick up any color on the rollers. I will not design a shape that needs to be run through colored side down ever again.

I know about the fears of tempering companies as I have worked with 2 companies. One was paranoid about everything and the other was totally cooperative with me, no fear. I'm thrilled that the no fear approach has worked out for both of us.
Bert



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Jacques Bordeleau

Postby Jacques Bordeleau » Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:02 pm

The white tint sealer I have used (yes, made for laminating) looks like white paint rubbed into your etching, it does not look like natural etching. Yes, unsealed etching inside a resin lam will disappear. Whether one can make suitable creative use of the white sealer is an individual thing.

I found one good project for it, but generally dislike the stuff for it's intended purpose...it looks phoney to me.

Regards, Jacques

Tom Fuhrman
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Postby Tom Fuhrman » Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:19 pm

Mark: You might want to investigate the new UV setting inks that they are using on many bottles and decorative glass ware. I've never used them but they have been written up in Ceramics Industry magazine and they are to be the wave of the future as they are non toxic and require no firing but will hold up under severe conditions. One of the companies that make these inks was exhibiting at the Society of Glass and Ceramics Decorators conference but I didn't make there to see their stuff. hope all is going well.
might have another big blast project for you. Tenn. Tom

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn
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Postby Brian and Jenny Blanthorn » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:52 am

Mark Selleck wrote:Thanks for everyone's help. Bert, what you've suggested is what I was looking for, a way to color the already tempered panels without going above strain point. I've investigated getting panels tempered after firing enamels and blasting, but no one around here will do it. They say the chances of blowing them up in the tempering line are too high, plus they're worried that the colors might come off on their rollers. I could get the colored/blasted panels laminated, but they want to laminate with the ornamental surface inside, and I don't think a frosted surface would show in such a situation. Any experience with that? They use a liquid laminating process, and I'd expect the liquid to fill the blasted texture to the point it would disappear. Since you're already doing ONE such job, would you like another?? :D

Mark


I do get a little fed up with all the info I aquire sometimes I feel like a reasearcher than a maker

However

With a little digging on UR part U may attain what u wish

Have a look at this

http://www.glassmediaonline.com

http://www.esma.com

Key words R

screenprinting

uv ink

There is a cold or low temp process as well but I cant find a key word 4 U

Enjoy
Image

Mark Selleck
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:52 pm
Location: Waxhaw, NC
Contact:

Postby Mark Selleck » Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:41 pm

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll have to investigate. For this particular job, though, I think I'm going to pass: the customer wants something YESTERDAY, and didn't even understand, or want to, why I wouldn't do 3/8" carved ANNEALED glass for a shower enclosure. Lawsuits I DON'T need.

Mark

Joanne Owsley
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Temper vs Anneal

Postby Joanne Owsley » Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:05 pm

[quote="Bert Weiss"][quote="Mark Selleck"]I have a prospective customer who wants etched and colored panels for a shower enclosure. I'm wondering about any technical problems that would prevent one from firing paints/stains onto tempered float glass. I'm looking at doing panels using 1/4" or 3/8" float, approximate panel sizes 28"x58". I'm also wondering about market pricing on such a product. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,[/quote]

Mark

I am still working on the job from hell using enameled 3/8" tempered float glass that is textured as well as enameled. There have been more problems than I could have dreamed of. It has been almost a year. I have 8 of 10 panels complete, which means that it can be done, just not without a steep learning curve. One good thing is that I have not lost any panels in the tempering line, but I was firing them enamel side down and it did mark them.

The simplest way I know to do it is with Organic bottle coatings from Ferro. These come in an array of colors, transparent and opaque. They can be sprayed, painted, or combination, or screened. I like to spray and stipple. Stippling gives me a kind of cats paw. It evens out any differences in density from the spray. They are fired to 400ºF with a half hour soak. The only down side to this product is that it is not a glossy smooth surface. It is a bit toothy. I wouldn't put it on the water side of the shower. Of course you need a big kiln.

Once you heat tempered glass above the strain point, it is no longer tempered, so you have to enamel,anneal, blast, then temper. Or you could temper, apply bottle coatings, bake, then blast. Another alternative would be to apply epoxy paints, blast, and be done with it. Or UV curing bottle coatings.[/quote]



Perhaps I should know the answer to this questions, but I don't. :oops:
What is the difference between annealed and tempered glass? Could someone please explain in layman's terms?
Thanks very much in advance.

charlie
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Postby charlie » Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:10 pm


Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:34 pm

At the risk of being out-Googled, here's what I hope is a simpler explanation.

Annealing is the process of slowly and carefully cooling glass so that stress is removed.

Tempering is a process of rapidly cooling glass so that stress remains in a specific pattern. One of the characteristics of tempered glass is that if it breaks it will shatter into small pieces that won't cut you.

Both processes require controlled cooling, but tempering usually requires specialized equipment (more than just a kiln). Also, reheating tempered glass will "un-temper" it, requiring that it be annealed or tempered again.

Bert Weiss
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Postby Bert Weiss » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:16 am

Brad Walker wrote:At the risk of being out-Googled, here's what I hope is a simpler explanation.

Annealing is the process of slowly and carefully cooling glass so that stress is removed.

Tempering is a process of rapidly cooling glass so that stress remains in a specific pattern. One of the characteristics of tempered glass is that if it breaks it will shatter into small pieces that won't cut you.

Both processes require controlled cooling, but tempering usually requires specialized equipment (more than just a kiln). Also, reheating tempered glass will "un-temper" it, requiring that it be annealed or tempered again.


What Brad didn't mention is that tempered glass is 5-7 times stronger than annealed glass. A baseball will bounce off but a dart or a good kick to the edge will shatter it. The small pieces that tempered glass breaks in to are square shaped and not sharp, hence it is considered safety glass.

A 3/8" thick piece of tempered glass is heated to 1100ºF in 5 minutes and cooled back to room temp in 7 more minutes. Don't try this at home LOL

The rear windshield of your car is tempered. The front windshield is annealed and laminated. If the front windshield were tempered, and your head was propelled in to it, your skull would squish and the glass would remain intact. Annealed laminated glass cracks and breaks so you go through the windshield and have a chance to live another day.
Bert



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Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware

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