MESH MELT

[Havi]

Is it possible to do mesh melt thru chicken wire?
Is it safe enough?
[i.e. the wire will not melt in the kiln?]




Thanks,
Havi

[Brad Walker]

The chicken wire is probably galvanized steel, which will spall (flake off) very badly in the kiln and probably stick to the glass.

If you can find wire that's stainless steel -- or even nichrome wire -- you can use that instead and that should work better than using a galvanized wire. Even if you can't find a mesh, you can string your own across the kiln.

[Mary Lou]

Havi, I've seen many stainless steel products that can be used for a mesh melt. Deep fryer basket, just make sure you clean off the grease. I just bought a s.s. basket for veggies on the bbq. A colander, many kitchen items, just make sure they are s.s. and consider the shape for what you are trying to achieve. I've found a few items at garage sales and flea markets. The deep fryer basket and bbq basket worked well for me but left some glass on the ss. Since I use both 90 and 96, I mark the basket so I don't get them mixed up. Mary Lou

[Havi]

Thank you so much Brad and Mary Lou,
I shall certainly benefit from your advices.

Do you think that copper wire will also be OK? Will it stand the temp. of mesh melt - i.e. 1700 degrees? [927 centigrade]


This is so helpful.
I am planning a thorough study on 'stains' and staining the glass, so it is mesh melt, wire melt, glass boiling etc.
I have a lot of left overs which I can use................

Thanks again

Havi

[Brad Walker]

Copper wouldn't be a good choice. Melting temp is 1084C/1983F, but it won't necessarily hold up well at the temperatures you want to fire.

[David Jenkins]

What we call "chicken wire" around here has very large (+1" ?) apertures, and is made of really skinny wire. Would be interesting to make a direct comparison of the results of using something with such dimensions against a mesh with much smaller apertures and/or a larger wire width:aperture size ratio.

Anybody done that? Or can make a sweeping generalization from some random tests? (And thanks to Mort Sahl).

[Sharol]

Hi Havi,

I use stainless steel 1" x 1" mesh that is made from .063 diameter wire. I had the mesh welded to a 10" x 10" x 1" stainless steel frame to create a flat mesh-bottomed box. Even though this is a pretty stout set up, over time the wire sags during firing from heat and the weight of the glass. The distance you ask the wire to span is important, because the wider the span the more easily the wire will sag.

When I was first working with wire melts, I tried a few different set ups and was surprised that even mesh I thought would be strong enough on its own, did not support the glass well. I had some ugly accidents while experimenting!

An advantage of using something made with a strongish gauge wire is that you can fairly easily remove any glass that remains by gently tapping it with a hammer. I've found doing this in a cardboard box and covering the mesh with a piece of cloth before I whack it helps keep the glass chips from flying. Of course you sill need eye protection. The wire is thin enough that the glass has less surface to cling to and yet thick enough to stand up to the tapping.

Wire melts are a kick! I hope you have fun with them

Sharol

[Georgia Novak]

Immerman of Clear Water Glass Studio uses hardware cloth (Rabbit cage wire) for his wire melts. Isn't that galvanized? Georgia

[haleybach]

Immerman of Clear Water Glass Studio uses hardware cloth (Rabbit cage wire) for his wire melts. Isn't that galvanized? Georgia

Cage wire and hardware cloth are not the same thing. I checked with a friend that keeps small animals, so this is second hand info but I thought it might be useful:

Hardware cloth is, or can be (not sure if it always is) a stainless steel mesh. Lower numbers are for a wider weave, realitivly speaking. It can be super fine mesh, finer than window screens.

Cage wire is not typically stainless steel, it is typically galvanized steel (the more expensive stuff is galvanized twice).

Sometimes the cloth is called baby guard.

[lmartine]

Copper wouldn't be a good choice. Melting temp is 1084C/1983F, but it won't necessarily hold up well at the temperatures you want to fire.

Brad,

I you do a melt at 1500F, would copper wire behave better than if heated at 1700F or you still would not recommend using it because it would sag?

Lucie

[Morganica]

I make my own mesh with a series of stainless steel square stock and a few soft firebrick, and use it when I'm making a blended-color billet, or when I want the colors to blend in a casting.

I drill holes in two pieces of firebrick and insert SS rods to make my "warp," then lay additional rods on top, perpendicular to the first set. I use square stock instead of round to prevent rolling. It's probably not necessary to set the square stock into holes in the firebrick for most projects, but I generally have 15-30 pounds of glass resting on them; I don't want to risk having the glass push the rods away until they potentially fall into the mold (or cause a big mass of glass to PLOP down on the mold all at once, potentially damaging it).

Once I've got the grill base made, I can set up the perpendicular rods any way I want. I place them closer together for more mixing, farther apart for an expanse of solid color. They don't have to be precisely perpendicular, either--sometimes I roughly follow a shape in the mold, so that the rods help guide the glass to the right spot.

The assembly will sag with heat and weight. The glass can move the rods on top a bit, so if I want absolute precision I will wire the rods into place with hi-temp wire. Not usually necessary, though.

It's a very flexible, controllable system. About the worst problem I have is the mess afterwards--the glass that coats the rods will pop off as the kiln cools, making a mess of little shards that need to be cleaned up (carefully, because they're sharp).

[Havi]

THank you so very much Cynthia for your enlighting post.

I also improvise on the mesh - make it from 1" thick fiber board, for my purposes this is enough.

I also like your idea of mixing the colours the way you do. Can you please post the finished object? I am very curious to see how it worked... I'd be very grateful for that. I think that the colors blended wonderfully!!

However, I would like to ask few questions

You added the schedule that you used

I understand that this is not mesh melt but casting - is this the explanation for the slow rising of the temprature? as much as I recall, when doing melt you raise the temp. quite quickly - or am I wrong?
The other thing is, that you do not reach the 1700 degrees, and I am asking again, is it because you cast, and not do melt?
But basically you DO melt, so does the slow rise in temp. compensate for the not rising to 1700??


Thanks a lot,
There is so much to be learnt from you.......
very exciting too,


Havi

[Morganica]

I don't think I've got a photo of the finished piece, but I have one of the glass right after removal from the mold. Unfortunately, you can't see the mixing and transparency very well--it really did combine beautifully. I didn't want obvious interfaces between colors and pretty much got what I wanted. (There's a dark blue line on the box that's propping up the piece, so that's not a solid blue stripe in there)

I always take a photo of the piece going into the kiln, along with the schedule, because as long as I don't lose the photo it's a better record of what was going on. In this case, I'm casting, and it's not really necessary to go higher than 1525F (in fact, I think 1525F is pushing it for casting soda-lime glass). Refractory plaster doesn't hold up well to high heat, so you try to stay as cool as possible.

In this particular case, I'm combining pate de verre (the man's face and hand) with transparent billet casting, something I've been messing around with for awhile. But if I went too high with the pate de verre I'd get some undesirable effects, too, so I'm keeping it low. In fact, the only reason I'm all the way to 1525F (I usually cast around 1485 with soda-lime) is because I do want the colors to mix.

The slow ramp to the top is more for the sake of the plaster than for the glass itself.

[lmartine]

This piece is absolutely gorgeous Cynthia! I love it!

Thanks for the tips.

Lucie

[Havi]

Thanks Cynthia
That very beautiful, as well as interesting! Thank you so much,

For me, there is always something new to be learnt from you [even photographing the schedule with the piece...] I keep a very detailed record of the schedules I use, as well as photos of all the stages of making a piece. The older I get, the more details I document, as I realise , that if and when it is needed, it is very helpfull.

Just as a naughty idea - you could also do revese casting on a piece like this - not with pate de verre - just reverse casting, it could be interesting too.

Thanks a lot,
for me you are a great teacher in and of this board,
I appreciate this,


Havi

[la suisse]

Dear Cynthia,

this is an absolutely wonderful piece! Your work is so inspiring and I think it is so special that you share your experience with all of us.

Thank you so much

[la suisse]

Oh, and same as Havi - cool idea to photograph the schedule... Will start this too!
Simple and usefull!

[S.TImmerman]

I'm in no way near accomplished as Cynthia. In fact this was my second melt and I decided to try "slumping deep" for the first time.

image.jpg (13.27 KiB) Viewed 25548 times

I still need to clean up the lip.. I'm still learning. I just wanted to say, there's a lot you can do with melts.

[Havi]

Very nice indeed.

What red did you use to acheive such beautiful red? They warn not to use red, as it becomes 'ugly brown'
Did you go as high as 1700 degrees? did you stay there, for how long??

Also , did you use the 3 molds to get to this deep bowl?, as instructed by Karl???
Or??

Thanks in advance,



Havi

[S.TImmerman]

Havi,

I'm very happy to help (finally) so many have helped me! I made a decision when I'm learning on my own to use 96 Coe as is cheaper. That was cherry opal from system 96, 30% and 20% yellow 50 clear. It was a pot melt and I did go to 1700 for 60 min.

As for the bowl, it was a drop out mold (donut) and I did it twice. The second time for 30 min until it hit the floor and then vented the kiln to 1150.

Hope that helps!!
Sheree