Super Glue Follow-up - WarmGlass.com

Super Glue Follow-up

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JenniferB
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Super Glue Follow-up

Postby JenniferB » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:55 am

I've just taken the things I used the gel super glue on out of the kiln. What a disaster that stuff is! The good news is that there is no sign of the original smear that I was concerned about, and which I removed with acetone. The bad news is that all the noodles I glued on with the gel puckered up and, in one case, lifted right off the base glass, and there's a whitish, powdery residue along the noodle edges. It can be scrubbed off for the most part but not completely. Also, wherever I used the gel to hold top and bottom layers together there's a large lump that I assume is a bubble. This has never happened to me with liquid super glue or Elmer's White Glue so I'm convinced it's the gel super glue. Never again!

Jennifer

Eryc F.
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby Eryc F. » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:04 am

Thanks for the follow up! Lesson learned.

I once mistakenly put a piece into the kiln with E6000 on it. That was not pretty. At least, I could see that it was not pretty once the smoke cleared!!!

Laurie Spray
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby Laurie Spray » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:36 am

That gel for ya!
Laurie Spray

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Mark Kemp
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby Mark Kemp » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:29 pm

I don't know what gel super glue you used, but this has been my experience:

I have used Loctite Extra Control in a Black and Green container many times with absolutely no residues or other problems.

Once I bought by mistake Loctite Gel Control in a Blue and Silver container. This left horrible residues!
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JenniferB
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby JenniferB » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:10 pm

I used the Scotch brand gel super glue in the single use tubes. This was the first - and last - time I'll use it. I currently have some pieces waiting to be fired that I put together with Scotch brand liquid super glue before this disaster so I'm hoping that the problem is only with the gel and not the brand!
Jennifer

JestersBaubles
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby JestersBaubles » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:14 pm

Ditch the super glues and gels, and use unscented, non aerosol hairspray or Glastac. If neither of these will hold it, it probably shouldn't be put in the kiln anyway :mrgreen: . As has been said many times, glues burn off before fusing takes place.

Dana W.

Morganica
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby Morganica » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:47 pm

There are multiple cyanoacrylates (superglues) on the market, and they will give very different results. Gel superglue formulations usually have some type of rubber or fumed silica additive to make them thicker, and the additive usually doesn't burn out. That's probably where the "superglue leaves a mark" originates.

Usually the cheapest possible superglue is best for temporary glass holds because it'll mostly be additive-free.

Dana's right, the glue will burn out around 700F or so, so it shouldn't be used to position the glass against gravity. I disagree, however, that it should never be used. I buy cheap superglue by the carton (the local hardware store guys are convinced I'm a superglue-sniffing addict), and use it in everything from temporary casting assemblages to making glass boxes for frit panels to tack-fusing. It is the best way I know to hold wobbly pieces in place until you can assemble the rest of the glass around it.

Some tips for using superglue:
I'm more likely to get whitish residues if I let moisture get to the superglue while it's drying, so I keep the glass surfaces as dry as possible and don't put a superglue-assembled piece on a wet kilnshelf (unless the superglue is under opaque glass).

I always try to put the glue under opaque or dark glasses, just in case something goes wrong.

I use the smallest amount possible. I don't flood an area with glue and lay the glass on top--that will almost always leave too much glue on the glass. Instead, I assemble the glass and put a drop of glue right where the two glasses join. Capillary action sucks just the right amount of glue into the joint.

If you wipe excess glue away with acetone, be careful about which acetone you're using. Some types (such as nail polish remover) can have additives that leave crud on your glass and make the problem worse. If the glue's in a readily accessible area, I usually prefer waiting for it to dry, then peeling it off the glass with a razor blade. I only use acetone where there's texture or something else that makes the glue difficult to remove. And in any case, I don't worry much about removing superglue right on the surface--it will burn off.

Superglue joints will NOT support the weight of your glass, i.e., never, ever lift your assemblage by a superglued-on piece of glass. Common superglue is actually a lousy glue for glass--which is why it works as a temporary hold.
Cynthia Morgan
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JenniferB
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby JenniferB » Wed May 01, 2013 3:29 pm

I never use super glue, or any other glue for that matter, for "structural" purposes. It's just there to hold small surface decorations in position until I can put them in the kiln. And even then, I use something the size of a pin head in as unobtrusive a place as I can. I buy my acetone by the gallon from the local beauty supply shop. I'm sure they wonder what I do with it! As for hairspray... I do use it to hold frit on the surface of a piece but I find it sprays too widely for positioning small decorations.

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice!

Jennifer

Morganica
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Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby Morganica » Wed May 01, 2013 4:39 pm

Actually, there are a couple of techniques where you use superglue precisely because it's structural. I've built up structures with superglue, placed them in a saggar or stainless container in the kiln, then carefully filled up the container with fired olivine/playsand/plaster of paris. The superglue fills the gaps where the filler would otherwise penetrate, and holds the structure together until the filler can support it. Then it burns out and the pieces tack together. It's a nice way to build boxes and latticework. You just have to be careful when moving it.

I've also used superglue structures when the kiln isn't big enough to hold a large casting+reservoir in a single firing. I cast the parts of the piece separately, put them together with superglue (or an organic wax, depending on the amount of hold I need before the refractory's in place), dip the whole thing in refractory and build a new mold around it. Then I fire--the glue burns out, leaving the bare glass to sinter together. That technique gives me far more control over placement of glass, and eliminates the need to have a big honkin' reservoir over the mold, taking up too much space.

In both cases, of course, the superglue "structure" is going to be replaced by a stronger method that will survive the heat.

You might want to purchase your acetone at a hardware store--the stuff I've gotten at beauty supplies does contain additives that can be left on the piece when the acetone evaporates. The stuff at the hardware store is usually additive-free.

On the hairspray--don't spray the piece. Instead, spray a little into a small cup or butter lid, dip a paintbrush into it and dab it on the surface, exactly where you want it. I do that with any adhesive--the applicators are often too small to allow accurate placement.
Cynthia Morgan
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http://www.cynthiamorgan.com

"I wrote, therefore I was." (me)

JenniferB
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:15 am

Re: Super Glue Follow-up

Postby JenniferB » Wed May 01, 2013 8:47 pm

Cynthia,

You're way ahead of me in the sophistication of your work and your technical knowledge! I don't think I'll ever achieve that level of complexity.

Someone else contacted me privately and told me to check out Home Depot for acetone. I'll certainly do that, although I will say I haven't noticed any post-firing residue from the salon acetone I've been using.

And thanks for the tip on how to use hairspray. Much better than trying to spray!

Jennifer


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