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Waffers

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Havi
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Waffers

Postby Havi » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:22 pm

What is the optimal method of making wafers?
Should I make the wafers on a primed shelf?
or
On a thin fire paper
or on
Fiber paper

I want to make waffers that I shall later fuse to a glass background -

What would be my best choice??? [I worry about the back of the wafers - I want it to be fusible to the glass to which it will be fused eventually]
Many thanks in advance

Havi
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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tbach
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Re: Waffers

Postby tbach » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:47 am

I fire wafers at 1250° to 1325°, (sorry, do not know equivalent C°)depending upon how "delicate" I want them to be. Powder can be sifted over stencils, or stenciled through silkscreens (I use 110tpi screens for wafers). They can be fired directly on a kilnwashed kiln shelf, or even on bisque tiles (usually available at ceramic suppliers) that are kilnwashed. The designs are going to shrink around 30%, so you must allow for that if you have a certain size in mind. Wafers added on top of subsequent glass projects whether unfired or prefired, will shrink and distort even more during their firing cycle, especially if you are going to full fuse temperature. This shrinking and distortion will not happen if you add them under the bottom layer of your glasswork (and maybe flip and fire afterwards?). I have been told that you can minimize the shrinking and distortion when placement is on the top of a project by sifting clear powder or clear fine frit on the whole top layer before firing, but I've not tried that yet. I have also "embedded" wafer elements in Patty Gray mold pieces, or "glass box" pieces - where design is composed mostly of fine and medium clear frit with glass and wafer elements placed on different levels and then covered with more clear frit.

If you want to make your wafer more opaque, add a little opaque white slurry to the back of the wafer before placing it on (or under) glass piece. I have a friend who sandblasts the back of her wafers just a little to get rid of kilnwash from firing, but I have never had to do that.

I have tried to fire wafers on thinfire ... didn't work on many levels.

Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:37 pm

Many many thanks for your detailed response!
I helps me a lot.

I shall try firing tonight to 718C [equivalent of 1325F]
and wait impatiently for the results tomorrow morning.

This seems, could be, a very important step in my way - - -

and I can not say how many options are opened in front of me, realizing how this can serve me.

thanks again,
while reading what is going on facebook - at the fused glass fanatics - I express again, my deep gratitude for the existence of this wonderful wonderful website, the members here, - and what it contributed to me and my art.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!

most humbly,
Havi
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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DonMcClennen
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Re: Waffers

Postby DonMcClennen » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:35 pm

If you have a small Hotbox or other jewellery type test kiln you can fire wafers in approx. 30 minutes. I use thinfire and set kiln on high...constant monitor when when kiln hits 12ooF...when you see wafer surface just start to appear wet (glaze) turn off kiln and vent.. Wafer will not have shrunk at all. Helps to have viewing window in kiln.
Best part of this technique is speed..(takes about 30 min.). Most important part is MONITOR. You can add clear powder on top of shaped image to add thickness. Run a few tests and have some fun.
"The Glassman"

Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:53 pm

AGAIN
A great idea..............
Do you think I could do the same in a big kiln 24" by 24" with a window???

thanks,
H.
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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DonMcClennen
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Re: Waffers

Postby DonMcClennen » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:29 pm

You could try it with AFAP full on heat-up.. of course your timing will increase ...you must monitor carefully.
"The Glassman"

tbach
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Re: Waffers

Postby tbach » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:46 am

Didn't think to mention that I use a very simple schedule - 600° to 1250°-1325° for 10 minutes, and then off. It takes more than 30 minutes for me because my kiln cools down rather slowly, but it is still quick when compared to other schedules - I don't have to babysit, and no anneal necessary. I am okay with opening kiln once it gets into 200-300°F range.

Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:02 pm

Thanks again dear friends,
I am trying to apply your input to my ideas.
So, if I want to wafer not to shrink I can use a 'colder' firing? 1250F, or less?

In any case the wafers are meant to be connected either between one another, or one another AND a background.
I have made my own paper, and printed on it in the past. Now I am thinking of 'translating' this way of working to working in glass.
I recently realized that it could be done by working with wafers.
I shall post a paper piece of mine. It seems that I could do the components of powder - and then fuse everything together. Full fuse, tack fuse, don't know yet
neither do I know whether I shall fuse the piece only, and/or fuse them to a back ground, fuse layers, or one layer only -
a lot of questions will be answered while working my way with this. At least I see a beginning...

Meanwhile I have taken out of the kiln my small experiments from yesterday.... yes they shrank a lot - thanks for the warning, at this point it does not bother me too much. More important for me is the fact that I can make amorphic shapes.
I shall continue - - -

many thanks again,
your input saved me time and heart aches!

HaVi
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:23 pm

pic_prints_4[1].jpg


This is a hand made paper piece of mine - I want to make it in glass - using wafers.
I hope this makes sense.

Here are my wafers - before firing, and after
P1210089.JPG


P1220091.JPG
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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Bob
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Re: Waffers

Postby Bob » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:22 am

Havi,

From the amount of contraction between the pre-fire and post-fire images I would say that you have fired too hot. The degree that the edges have pulled in, and the amount of glassy/shiny lustre are the indicators of overfiring. I suggest firing to 696C for 10 minutes and turn off. Also the colour (viscosity) of the powder is going to have a big impact on the degree of pulling in. If you really want to maintain shape then you might have to fire wafers with significantly different viscosities in separate firing.

Were those wafers fired on fibre paper? I would recommend that you fire on a shelf with kiln wash. The fibre paper can embed in the powder and cause problems.

It will be a gorgeous project when finished.

Cheers,

Bob

Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:53 pm

Thanks , Bob
'Mr Wafers!' [among other things]

Yes I did fire on kiln washed shelf [ceramic one]
I just kilnwashed a bigger shelf, which will be dry probably tomorrow morning, and then I shall fire other pieces, perhaps more powder this time - even though I do not mind the wafers not being too even with powder distribution, as it will create different tones in the final piece.

I wonder, if there will be a reaction, if I fuse a wafer to a reactive background, will possibly depend on the thickness of the wafer. - - -

We'll see
and yes, I shall fire to a lower temp. again, especially considering that these wafers will be fired at least once more.

I think I should learn also to work with enamels. ??

I shall be taking a class in Zurich later this year, perhaps I'll have the opportunity to inquire there
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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Bob
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Re: Waffers

Postby Bob » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:30 pm

Havi,

Reactions are possible with wafers but they really need to go to higher temperatures for loner periods of time to get the reaction to fully mature.

Cheers,

Bob

Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:05 am

Thanks, Bob

:-D
:D

HaVi
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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Valerie Adams
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Re: Waffers

Postby Valerie Adams » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:26 pm

Havi, if you pick up any kiln wash on the back of your wafers, a quick soak in a water/white vinegar solution will allow you to gently remove it. Also, don't be afraid to manipulate your wafers after firing. I use a nail file, x-acto knife, grinder, etc.

Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:41 pm

Valerie Adams wrote:Havi, if you pick up any kiln wash on the back of your wafers, a quick soak in a water/white vinegar solution will allow you to gently remove it. Also, don't be afraid to manipulate your wafers after firing. I use a nail file, x-acto knife, grinder, etc.


Good,
Thanks.
I have some crazy ideas - - -
the thing is I feel liberated. Somehow, making wafers, and THEN fusing them into the glass, and THEN working on top of them with stencils - seems to be the way for me. Just needs to be tested in reality.
Many thanks,
Can't wait - - -
Hugs [so grateful!]

HaVi
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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http://www.havivaz.com

Bob
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Re: Waffers

Postby Bob » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:09 pm

Valerie, I just wet the wafer and then rub the kiln wash with the flat blade of a putty knife... save the vinegar for the chips.

Havi... I find that wafers are very versatile. I really like the concept of building from components. If the wafer doesn't work out then you haven't wasted a lot of glass time or energy. It allows me the latitude to make mistakes.

My latest incarnations of wafers are realistic prints as shown in the attachment.

cheers,

Bob
Attachments
Four Shrimp Fish Detail.jpg

Valerie Adams
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Re: Waffers

Postby Valerie Adams » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:41 am

Thanks Bob, I'll try just scraping instead.

Those new wafers of yours make me weak in the knees; I SO wish you were teaching in the Bay Area!!!

Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:05 am

I know why Val. says this, Bob
Those are amazing...............

My my idea is also to build coloration in the waffers, and with them, but I go more for the abstract ...

I also have to learn about quantities - how much powder should I use in order to acheive a real effect - even though I am aware that I can refire and add powder.
I'll keep track of this.

Thanks, all

H.
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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Havi
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Re: Waffers

Postby Havi » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:54 am

Bob wrote:Havi,

Reactions are possible with wafers but they really need to go to higher temperatures for loner periods of time to get the reaction to fully mature.

Cheers,

Bob

I wanted to add, that reaction can be avoided, by using transparent powder between the layers.
So it serves for more than one purpose


HaVi
Haviva Z
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"Speed comes from the Devil" - (an Arabic proverb)
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Bob
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Re: Waffers

Postby Bob » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:14 am

Hi again Havi,


You mention .. My my idea is also to build coloration in the waffers, and with them, but I go more for the abstract ... I attached an image where wafers made from transparent powders have been layered between sheets of glass. The top of the piece was then cold worked to expose the glass and wafers.

I include this image to give you an idea of other ways to use wafers.

Cheers,

Bob
Attachments
Adamant   by Leatherbarrow.jpg


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