FRIT SIZES for PATE DE VERRE Q

[rodney]

i was doing some research and came across what this person says is a good mix for pate de verre, i figured one size would be fine, id like to know what others think, does this make any sense

40 mesh 60%
50-80 mesh 15%
finer than 80 mesh 25%


thanks

rodney

[Delores Taylor]

i was doing some research and came across what this person says is a good mix for pate de verre, i figured one size would be fine, id like to know what others think, does this make any sense

40 mesh 60%
50-80 mesh 15%
finer than 80 mesh 25%


thanks

rodney

I use bullseye so I'm not sure how the mesh size relates to their 01,02,08 sizes but I'll address the issue of mixing frit sizes. It's a fine idea, but you can also use one frit size and get a good piece, packing skills become more important then. The theory is various sizes will allow it to pack down better.

[Lauri Levanto]

In Lundstrom book there was tests how much better
a mixed size frit packs. The frit size has to do with
the opaqueness of the glass, too.

The larger frit, the more transparent is the result.

-lauri

[ellen abbott]

Depends on what you are casting, what style your piece is. If your relief has a lot of small elements in it and you are trying to put specific colors in specific places, larger frit sizes don't work well. I use #1 mostly. Sometimes I mix it with #2 for the bulk of the casting (the glass for the bowl in my case).

ellen
http://www.emstudioglass.com

[Delores Taylor]

on this situation of the frit packing well, i was under the assumption that the frit is glued in, thus bonded to one another, but then im wondering how much space is taken up by the glue, which will be filled by the melting glass, is this where the very very very thin glue comes in handly, for making the thinest of coats, to prevent too much glue buildup, it seems that argy-rousseau used water, but i think ill use glue

thanks
rodney


Rodney,

I moved your question back to the main thread as it's easier to address here. The glue is to help the frit stay in place not to fill the space. The various sizes help to fill in the space. The glue will burn out somewhere under the first 1000 degrees, long before the glass starts melting. See above responses as to why you use various sizes.

[rodney]

In Lundstrom book there was tests how much better
a mixed size frit packs. The frit size has to do with
the opaqueness of the glass, too.

The larger frit, the more transparent is the result.

-lauri

could you tell me why the smaller pieces give a less than transparent appearance,,,,and would the smaller pieces come out clear if the temp was high enough,,,if so, what would be that neccessary temp be
thanks
rodney

[Jim Murphy]

Rodney,

I share my booknotes below regarding particle size vs. translucency for Lead crystal pate de verre from "Art and Technique Of Pate de Verre"

Notes:
How to control translucency? - determined by size of glass grains. Large grains of glass charged into molds trap large bubbles inside glass, but there are fewer of them. With fewer bubbles to diffuse light, glass will be more transparent. On the other hand, with small grains (size of sugar), there are more, smaller bubbles, which diffuse light more and make the glass less transparent.
Charging with glass powder, even clear glass powder only, will result in opaque, white glass.

(Below are supposed to be 4 perfectly aligned columns - had trouble though with the List "formatting")

GrainSize/BubbleSize/BubbleDensity/Translucency
Cullet/ large/ thin/ transparent
Frit (mesh size JIS 60)/ small/ small/ translucent
Powder/ minute/ dense/ opaque

So, Rodney, I guess each of us needs to decide which particle/grain size
to use based, in part, on the degree of light transmittance we desire for the finished piece.

Hope this helps,

Jim Murphy

[rodney]

you wrote:

GrainSize/BubbleSize/BubbleDensity/Translucency
Cullet/ large/ thin/ transparent
Frit (mesh size JIS 60)/ small/ small/ translucent
Powder/ minute/ dense/ opaque

this information is great, and appreciated, BUT, is there anyway to get those tiny bubbles outta there, to make it a bit closer to translucent,,,,is there a glass out there that reacts differently, or not as drasticlly,,,,,im trying to get some more clarity with the smaller frit sizes, thanks so much, rodney

[Delores Taylor]

you wrote:

GrainSize/BubbleSize/BubbleDensity/Translucency
Cullet/ large/ thin/ transparent
Frit (mesh size JIS 60)/ small/ small/ translucent
Powder/ minute/ dense/ opaque

this information is great, and appreciated, BUT, is there anyway to get those tiny bubbles outta there, to make it a bit closer to translucent,,,,is there a glass out there that reacts differently, or not as drasticlly,,,,,im trying to get some more clarity with the smaller frit sizes, thanks so much, rodney

Cast rather than pate de verre, go to larger glass size as advised above.

[Jim Murphy]

Rodney wrote, " is there anyway to get those tiny bubbles outta there, to make it a bit closer to translucent"

Wait a second Rodney. The tiny bubbles ARE what creates the translucency. We're talking microscopic "bubbles", not the larger bubbles visible to the naked-eye in some transparent castings which to some may appear to be a "defect".

Jim Murphy