Hi all
I'm new here and really appreciate this Board and sharing of info. I am a recording engineer and producer by trade and a passionate fuser of a few months, and I can tell you not all boards are as friendly and free flowing as this one! The recording groups are great though if you need a boot to the head (or you already know all the answers).
I've done some casting in open face molds and really enjoy it. Now I want to do some lost wax. I bought some wax at local art store but turns out it's more of a hard carving type wax. I think I'd prefer a softer wax I can hand model more like clay/Sculpey etc.
Any suggestions?
TIA
softwaxyboy
Modeling wax recommendation
Moderator: Brad Walker
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Brad Walker
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Microcrystalline wax is what's generally recommended. "Victory brown" is the most common generic name. It's flexible at room temperature and can easily be molded by hand. You can get reasonable detail by carving (put in a refrigerator to harden a bit if you really want the most carved detail). Most hobby type stores don't carry it, but I have seen it from time to time.
If you can't get microcrystalline wax, you can make a workable substitute by combining parafin and beeswax. Add 10 to 20 percent beeswax to parafin. Both parafin and beeswax are widely available in hobby stores and such. (You probably bought parafin at your local store, just get some beeswax to add and soften it up.)
One final comment -- it's generally not a good idea to heat wax above 212F or so. Use a double boiler to melt wax (i.e., a pot with the wax in a pot of boiling water) -- if wax gets too hot it will vaporize and can explode.
If you can't get microcrystalline wax, you can make a workable substitute by combining parafin and beeswax. Add 10 to 20 percent beeswax to parafin. Both parafin and beeswax are widely available in hobby stores and such. (You probably bought parafin at your local store, just get some beeswax to add and soften it up.)
One final comment -- it's generally not a good idea to heat wax above 212F or so. Use a double boiler to melt wax (i.e., a pot with the wax in a pot of boiling water) -- if wax gets too hot it will vaporize and can explode.
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Delores Taylor
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Re: Modeling wax recommendation
[quote="Phil Brown"]
Hi Phil,
I use victory brown but there are some things to consider --- it's pertroleum based and I steam outside not in my kiln. I melt in a crock pot on low. If you use high you can smell the fumes (beware of that). Get a wax fact sheet regarding safety. Search the archives here for lots of great blends, opinions and great slants on working in hot/cold climates. I use a wall paper steamer to steam out my molds which works quite great. If you really get into it some folks build big drying chambers.
If you're going to be at GAS in Seattle Steph Mader will be doing a wax demo on Sunday open studio. Come join us and say hi.
Hi Phil,
I use victory brown but there are some things to consider --- it's pertroleum based and I steam outside not in my kiln. I melt in a crock pot on low. If you use high you can smell the fumes (beware of that). Get a wax fact sheet regarding safety. Search the archives here for lots of great blends, opinions and great slants on working in hot/cold climates. I use a wall paper steamer to steam out my molds which works quite great. If you really get into it some folks build big drying chambers.
If you're going to be at GAS in Seattle Steph Mader will be doing a wax demo on Sunday open studio. Come join us and say hi.
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Carol Craiglow
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If I'm not mistaken, it's called the Compleat Sculptor. Also, http://www.artstuf.com is the website for Douglass & Sturgiss in San Francisco and they have lots o' info on moldmaking and materials on their website.
Another idea is to sculpt in clay, make a rubber mold and make wax casts from that. I haven't really found a wax that models like clay does, and I love to sculpt in clay!! One tip tho that I learned in a casting class at Penland several years ago is to melt the wax on low in a slow cooker (I also use a candy thermometer to make sure the temp stays at about 180F...its working temperature) with a wide edge. Then use a brush to brush the wax over the edge of the slow cooker over and over. Then you can use that wax that you've built up on the edge, which is still very soft (be careful...it can be hot) to sculpt with. It's not exactly like clay cus it tends to be lumpy, but you can smooth the outside with a propane torch.
Carol
Another idea is to sculpt in clay, make a rubber mold and make wax casts from that. I haven't really found a wax that models like clay does, and I love to sculpt in clay!! One tip tho that I learned in a casting class at Penland several years ago is to melt the wax on low in a slow cooker (I also use a candy thermometer to make sure the temp stays at about 180F...its working temperature) with a wide edge. Then use a brush to brush the wax over the edge of the slow cooker over and over. Then you can use that wax that you've built up on the edge, which is still very soft (be careful...it can be hot) to sculpt with. It's not exactly like clay cus it tends to be lumpy, but you can smooth the outside with a propane torch.
Carol
Bob L Workshop - Take Two
June 10-11-12
Santa Fe NM
http://www.warmglass.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10420
June 10-11-12
Santa Fe NM
http://www.warmglass.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10420
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Steph Mader
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Phil Brown
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Delores Taylor
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Definately Check and Chong. Little Eva just recently died does anyone remember the song Loca Motion?Phil Brown wrote:Thanks much for the tips everyone. I'll have to pick up some 'o that Microcrystalline Victory Brown. Wasn't she a singer from the 30's? [and her sidekick "Vaseline"] Or was that something Chech and Chong used in one of their movies??
victoriusbrownboy
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John Kurman
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Late in the game reply, but, some "empirical" obse
I've used victory brown wax extensively for both glass and bronze casting. It's good stuff, but, a few caveats from personal experience (and confirmation of what has already been said).
1) Melting and hot working the stuff does produce nasty fumes. Do this only in well ventilated areas.
2) Waxes come in a variety of formulations, typically rated by "softness" - from icky feeling "very soft" patch wax to machinable "very hard" jewelers' wax. They usually have different melting points and congealing times. A "hard" victory brown wax has a different (higher) melting point than the "soft" version. If you mix the two to get an intermediate wax, you have to melt in the crockpot at a higher temp than you would for just "soft". You will notice that a scuzzy brown crud with little white nodules resembling giblets of fat develops in the bottom of the pot. This is the petroleum constituents of the "soft" wax separating out. Avoid stirring the wax, and draw from the top of the melt. Otherwise these unmeltable nodules get into your model. How to avoid this? See 3)
3) Typically, the reasons to use a "harder" wax is threefold: a) You are making a large piece that needs to be rigid, or it will sag and bend; b) You wish to retain sharp details that a "soft" wax will lose under handling; and /or c) You come from a "woodcarving" background. "Clay people" working with wax are more comfortable with the "soft" version as it resembles clay in working, whereas "woodcarver" types prefer the "hard" for similar reasons. If you are comfortable with the "soft" wax, and wish to work a larger piece with a risk of sagging, consider using an internal armature of "hard" wax, or balsa wood or basswood held together with hot glue. The melted wax will stick readily to the wood, and once the wax is steamed out, the wood is generally easy to remove from the mold (provided you have "thought it all through" ahead of time and avoided placing wood in some convoluted cubbyhole embedded deep within the mold - a mistake I've made!).
4) Victory brown, despite being a wonderful wax, generally does not steam clean (there are exceptions, and the why of it generally escapes me). This wax has a tendency to be very messy and leave littles bits of what look like carbonized crud sitcking to the mold. A vigorous spraying with water (consider using a waterpick) and rubbing with the fingers may remove most of the film, but some very thin layers tend to remain. These will burn out in casting, but then be aware that nasty fumes will be produced! On the other hand, sometimes they steam completely clean. If you happen to have an autoclave to hand, more power to you!
5) If possible without damaging the mold, gently remove as much of the wax as you can by hand - to reduce the amount of wax you have to steam out. For example, if you are modeling a piece with few details and relatively few undercuts, you may be able to remove the wax without steaming at all!
6) If you put a splashcoat on the wax to preserve details, you may notice that the plaster/silica investment "rolls" of the piece like water off a... waxed car hood. Be patient, as the investment starts to set, it will eventually stick.
7) Wax models usually mean "intricate" or "complex" pieces (relative terms admittedly), which may require thinking in terms of metal casting systems of vents and sprues to feed the piece and get the bubbles out. You may end up with a piece that looks like it was intended for traditional Luto investment casting... which is exactly what you are doing. Vents can be made from small tubes or wires of wax, or even dental floss affixed to the piece. Sprues (feeder tubes) you have to be careful with. Glass flows like molasses in winter compared to molten metals, and you may be better off with multiple reservoirs/drip pot entrepots feeding the piece, rather than a tree of sprues from one entry cup.
8) Keep in mind that failures will occur. Failures are merely an opportunity to learn (and, beleive me, I've learned a lot!), so be sure to make failure part of the fun.
That's about it. Hope this was helpful.
-John
1) Melting and hot working the stuff does produce nasty fumes. Do this only in well ventilated areas.
2) Waxes come in a variety of formulations, typically rated by "softness" - from icky feeling "very soft" patch wax to machinable "very hard" jewelers' wax. They usually have different melting points and congealing times. A "hard" victory brown wax has a different (higher) melting point than the "soft" version. If you mix the two to get an intermediate wax, you have to melt in the crockpot at a higher temp than you would for just "soft". You will notice that a scuzzy brown crud with little white nodules resembling giblets of fat develops in the bottom of the pot. This is the petroleum constituents of the "soft" wax separating out. Avoid stirring the wax, and draw from the top of the melt. Otherwise these unmeltable nodules get into your model. How to avoid this? See 3)
3) Typically, the reasons to use a "harder" wax is threefold: a) You are making a large piece that needs to be rigid, or it will sag and bend; b) You wish to retain sharp details that a "soft" wax will lose under handling; and /or c) You come from a "woodcarving" background. "Clay people" working with wax are more comfortable with the "soft" version as it resembles clay in working, whereas "woodcarver" types prefer the "hard" for similar reasons. If you are comfortable with the "soft" wax, and wish to work a larger piece with a risk of sagging, consider using an internal armature of "hard" wax, or balsa wood or basswood held together with hot glue. The melted wax will stick readily to the wood, and once the wax is steamed out, the wood is generally easy to remove from the mold (provided you have "thought it all through" ahead of time and avoided placing wood in some convoluted cubbyhole embedded deep within the mold - a mistake I've made!).
4) Victory brown, despite being a wonderful wax, generally does not steam clean (there are exceptions, and the why of it generally escapes me). This wax has a tendency to be very messy and leave littles bits of what look like carbonized crud sitcking to the mold. A vigorous spraying with water (consider using a waterpick) and rubbing with the fingers may remove most of the film, but some very thin layers tend to remain. These will burn out in casting, but then be aware that nasty fumes will be produced! On the other hand, sometimes they steam completely clean. If you happen to have an autoclave to hand, more power to you!
5) If possible without damaging the mold, gently remove as much of the wax as you can by hand - to reduce the amount of wax you have to steam out. For example, if you are modeling a piece with few details and relatively few undercuts, you may be able to remove the wax without steaming at all!
6) If you put a splashcoat on the wax to preserve details, you may notice that the plaster/silica investment "rolls" of the piece like water off a... waxed car hood. Be patient, as the investment starts to set, it will eventually stick.
7) Wax models usually mean "intricate" or "complex" pieces (relative terms admittedly), which may require thinking in terms of metal casting systems of vents and sprues to feed the piece and get the bubbles out. You may end up with a piece that looks like it was intended for traditional Luto investment casting... which is exactly what you are doing. Vents can be made from small tubes or wires of wax, or even dental floss affixed to the piece. Sprues (feeder tubes) you have to be careful with. Glass flows like molasses in winter compared to molten metals, and you may be better off with multiple reservoirs/drip pot entrepots feeding the piece, rather than a tree of sprues from one entry cup.
8) Keep in mind that failures will occur. Failures are merely an opportunity to learn (and, beleive me, I've learned a lot!), so be sure to make failure part of the fun.
That's about it. Hope this was helpful.
-John
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charlie holden
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Re: Late in the game reply, but, some "empirical"
A couple of fine points.John Kurman wrote:(snip)
5) If possible without damaging the mold, gently remove as much of the wax as you can by hand - to reduce the amount of wax you have to steam out. For example, if you are modeling a piece with few details and relatively few undercuts, you may be able to remove the wax without steaming at all!
6) If you put a splashcoat on the wax to preserve details, you may notice that the plaster/silica investment "rolls" of the piece like water off a... waxed car hood. Be patient, as the investment starts to set, it will eventually stick.
(snip)
-John
Soak your plaster/silica mold in water before you steam out the wax. This will reduce the amount of wax that is absorbed by the plaster when the wax is liquid. Which means there is less to burn out in the kiln.
A trick to applying splash coats is to spray your wax with hairspray before splashing on the plaster. For some reason it helps the plaster stick.
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John Kurman
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RE: a couple of fine points
Right, Charlie. Thanks for remembering what I forgot. Henry Halem mentions an alternative of steaming the wax out as soon as the plaster/silica has set. I learned the hard way about steaming dry molds after the wax "wicked" in to the interior of the mold. Looked clean, but boy did it produce smoke when casting, and the piece was ruined.
Also, spray shellac can be used in place of hairspray... if you don't use hairspray.
Also, spray shellac can be used in place of hairspray... if you don't use hairspray.
Re: even later reply
I heat beeswax and rosin on a burner to fasten sheet glass to a glass palette for painting. You recycle the wax. It picks up the oxides from the paint and eventually becomes brown with pigment. Every glass painter's studio I've ever seen has a pan with brown wax of some sort. I was noticing that I got nauseated when I smelled the wax heating. I think it gives-off toxic fumes of mass destruction because of the paint thats in it.John Kurman wrote:I've used victory brown wax extensively for both glass and bronze casting. It's good stuff, but, a few caveats from personal experience (and confirmation of what has already been said).
1) Melting and hot working the stuff does produce nasty fumes. Do this only in well ventilated areas.
-John
I'm adapting my wax pot behavior accordingly. Sorry for the thread shift.
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Lauri Levanto
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Removing Wax
I have no proper steaming rig, so I melt the vax
(Candle vax or paraffin + beeswax)
with a hot air gun.
The mold absorb some vax, so when the mold is
"empty" I squirt spoonful of acetone in it and
burn the residue out. DEFINITELY outdoors!!
If the mold is fairly open it burns out clean.
In a narrow deep mold there is lack of oxygen
and black soot is formed.
Blowing some air into mold through a glass tube
improves burning
-lauri
(Candle vax or paraffin + beeswax)
with a hot air gun.
The mold absorb some vax, so when the mold is
"empty" I squirt spoonful of acetone in it and
burn the residue out. DEFINITELY outdoors!!
If the mold is fairly open it burns out clean.
In a narrow deep mold there is lack of oxygen
and black soot is formed.
Blowing some air into mold through a glass tube
improves burning
-lauri