has anyone ever used an agent?

The forum for discussion on business aspects of working with glass.

Moderator: Brad Walker

Post Reply
Leslie Ihde

has anyone ever used an agent?

Post by Leslie Ihde »

For people who truly hate selling, is there such a thing as a wonderful, reliable agen who believes in your work and will sell it for a comission? has anyone had experience with this venue? Leslie
Kevin Midgley
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:36 am
Location: Tofino, British Columbia, Canada

Post by Kevin Midgley »

You can end up with more orders than you can handle if you are not careful. You will sell lots but then become a manufacturer instead of an artist. I used to sell to over 300 shops etc. across N. America and was the hamster running on the wheel in his cage 24 hours a day trying to get ahead. I finally did break free when the business/life relationship with my partner failed. I now live a quieter, saner life supplying my own studio and a couple of other places. I don't sell millions of dollars of glass any more but I am healthier and happier.
The bottom line is what you keep in your pocket after all is said and done and the resulting quality of your life.
Agents are good, they will make sales that you yourself would never get easily on your own. However their services come at a cost to your bottom line. The 15% of the wholesale price that they command doesn't sound too bad until you have to start hiring people to fill the orders and pack the boxes etc etc. The agents will also always be asking you for something new to show the customers so that your product line will be constantly expanding as will your production equipment. There will be disputes between you and your agent about your house accounts and those the agent has developed. You will constantly be annoyed with the percentage they take of your profits. (visualize thousand dollar orders coming in week after week from an account they took the time to sell to only once....but you hired the agent to do.) It is not impossible for an agent to end up working with you and what you perceive to be as your competition. If you let an agent know too much about your business it is also possible for them to go into competition with you either by setting up themselves or subcontracting the work to someone who is willing to work cheaply. All they have to do is change the design a reasonable percentage from what you were making and they are home free and they have a list of all your accounts AND most importantly a relationship with the buyers in those accounts that you don't because you let the agent do the work.
What do you want out of life? Kevin
Doug
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:13 pm
Location: Beautiful, sunny Portland Oregon

Post by Doug »

Well, without rambling on endlessly on this subject I have only one opinion. Tried it...and it didn't work out as this person was only interested in one thing.... her bottom line....And a major portion of the profit.
Leslie Ihde

agents

Post by Leslie Ihde »

Well, that's two votes against agents, unless I count Kevin's as more than one given the strong feelings I detected. I get the sense that a person to handle the sales/business end turns you into more of a business than you want to be. Well, I hope some gallery owners come to my open studio sale and offers just drop in my lap- that sounds good. :wink: Leslie
Brock
Posts: 1519
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:32 pm
Location: Vancouver, B.C.

Post by Brock »

Another vote against. I'm sure there are good agents out there, but I haven't met them. The one I used seemed to concentrate on my lowest priced items, (the ones I liked making the least) and as I didn't want to be a tschakes manufacturer, we severed the relationship. Brock
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .
Glenda Kronke
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:44 am
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by Glenda Kronke »

You have to ask yourself this: Do you really want to make tons of $$$ (along with all the numerous business headaches that Kevin mentioned, among others), make the same thing over and over and over again OR express yourself as an artist? I'm with Doug and Kevin and Brock. Be careful what you wish for.
**I'm not saying doing production is a bad thing (since I run a successful production studio) but you really need to ask yourself what you want...Good Luck!
Lisa Allen
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:23 pm
Location: Memphis, TN
Contact:

Post by Lisa Allen »

So, what is the best way to go about getting your work out there? Calls, sending a brochure with pics of the work, going in with a few pieces....

Thanks.
Lisa Allen
http://www.lisa-allen.com
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
Kitty
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Post by Kitty »

The down-side is aptly described by Kevin and others. I have 3 reps: one in Hawaii, where i live, one in Northern California, and a new one in Palm Springs. I'm in the dichroic jewelry production business, and these 3 reps do an excellent job for me. I live in a remote place, and don't travel around Hawaii or California looking for new accounts. Too expensive. The majority of my accounts are "house accounts," but i've been turning over more of them to the Hawaii rep, bit by bit, because i realize in my situation it's worth the 15% for her to call on the stores/galleries on the various islands, and make sure they are stocked. I did have a different rep approach me about a year ago, and it didn't work at all. They wanted to take over all accounts, and generally speaking it wasn't a good fit, and I ended it quickly. If you're needing some help to get into better shops & galleries, a few trade shows might open some doors. I guess i'm the one person in this discussion who has a more positive outlook on this topic, but my business is not fine art, it's production. Having said that, I don't take special orders or get involved in any requests that alter the way i produce the line. I know what sells well for each of my stores, and they all let me stock them at my selection. It's an interesting topic you brought up, and a lot of different ways it can be handled. All the best to you in broadening your market. Kitty.
Barbara Cashman
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Greensboro NC
Contact:

Post by Barbara Cashman »

More on the subject. I agree with Kevin 150%. There is even more to the story, however. Kevin mentioned the agent needs only to change a little of the design to knock it off. There are even more unscrupulous people out there who simply knock off the design exactly (yes, even copyrighted ones), with the exact name and everything. I am still battling this one. Had another instance rear its head last week. No wonder I haven't gotten an order from that dealer in 3 years. They have been buying the knock-off. Lawyer time again. There are many good points to having an agent, but it appears Kevin and I have been hit with the downside pretty hard. If you go with an agent, have everything in writing, and written in such a way that you won't spend a fortune on lawyers enforcing it. - Barbara
Leslie Ihde

agents

Post by Leslie Ihde »

Well, I hadn't anticipated so many thoughtful remarks. I think I'm back to facing selling myself. It's terrible when someone steels a design. I'm not sure I can understand that. I mean, I understand wanting to make $, but how do these people live with themselves? Thanks for the benefit of experience. Leslie :shock:
Marty
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:58 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Re: agents

Post by Marty »

[quote="Leslie Ihde"]Well, that's two votes against agents, unless I count Kevin's as more than one given the strong feelings I detected. I get the sense that a person to handle the sales/business end turns you into more of a business than you want to be. Well, I hope some gallery owners come to my open studio sale and offers just drop in my lap- that sounds good. :wink: Leslie[/quote]


You'll be waiting for a long time.

Put together a gallery list from ads in American Style, American Craft (or has that been re-named too?), Glass, Niche (100 top retailers of American Craft- rent the list from Wendy Rosen), etc. Have 2 or 3 postcards printed (Modernpostcard.com), and send them out with a short bio and letter introducing yourself and your work. It should be relatively simple and concise. Don't send a wholesale price list. Wait 1-2 weeks and CALL EVERY ONE OF THOSE GALLERIES. "Did you get my info? What do you think? Do you have any questions, would you like to see slides, can I send you a wholesale price list and call you again after you've seen it?"

You should send out about 150 pieces and make 150 phone calls. Write out a script if you're nervous. Selling at the wholesale level is a simple transaction. They have a shop and need stock. You have stock. Can they sell your price point or style? Do you want to consign or sell outright? Get references and check them. Make sure you're satisfied with your wholesale prices- they really need to double that to afford to sell your work.

My take on agents is the same as the others (I had reps when I was producing lots and lots of the same stuff)- they're mostly good for a limited line of inexpensive work, and good reps are very hard to find.

Marty
Kevin Midgley
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:36 am
Location: Tofino, British Columbia, Canada

Post by Kevin Midgley »

Marty's comments are truly the best way to go. Beware however of feigned enthusiasm and we need the inventory right away customers who want to pay later. Those are the places, the ones demanding that you ship right away, that will be the ones that fail to pay you. Ship those first few orders COD or better still, prepaid. If in Canada if you want to sell wholesale, the only way to go is to join the Canadian Gift and Tableware Association at a huge $ cost per year so that you can sign up for their customer credit checking system. Warning sheets came out regularly! One of the jobs of a good rep would be to collect for you and not sell to "risky" accounts.
Ah, I keep my life simple now. The tourists find me....sometimes....but I charge RETAIL when they do!
Sara
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: Magdalena, New Mexico, USA

Post by Sara »

Leslie,

It is tough getting started isn't it! I've had a few excellent reps and some really bad ones. They can really be a help when you are getting started. I simply had a clause that said that if we terminated the realtionship the rep would continue to get a commission on all orders from their clients for 3 months and then the client reverted to me, this worked great.

As for rip-offs it doesn't take a rep to do that and I simply don't fret about it. If you've got work out there for sale you run that risk. I've had my share but have managed to stay one step ahead.

You also need to be represented in some wholesale shows, try BMAC or one of the handmade wholesale shows, gallery owners do attend these. You can also do these shows with non production work to get that all important exposure. Main thing is to put yourself out there. Get your name known. Advertise, promote. Join a guild and participate at shows with them. . . this is also a fine line to walk "cause we can die from overexposure"! I read this quote about 12 years ago in a glass magazine and just last weekend met the artist attributed with it . . . only to find out he borrowed it from someone else!

Ah production, I have a production studio and have run the treadmill as Kevin described, and experienced the joys as Kitty says . . . have been shaking that tree and finding a balance that works for me. Sometimes we need to experience that treadmill and the terror of reps to understand what we want and make it work for us rather than us for it:)

Good luck,

Sara
J Campbell
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:54 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Post by J Campbell »

I don't think that my last post went through, if it did I'm sorry for posting again!

How does one go about finding a rep? I have tried with no luck. I'm only after one or two. Ideas? Thanks.
Terry Ow-Wing
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:21 pm
Location: San Francisco, Ca.
Contact:

Post by Terry Ow-Wing »

a different way to approach the "I hate selling" is if you do retail shows bring someone that loves selling and you be present in the booth to answer technical questions. I only do retail shows that require the artist to be there - so that the quality of work is supposedely a certain status. Maybe after a while you will get more comfortable with selling your own work and it won't be such a daunting task.

best of luck - Terry O. :wink:
Terry Ow-Wing Designs
Kilnformed and Lampworked Glass Art
http://GlassArt.weebly.com
Image
Kitty
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:12 pm
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Post by Kitty »

To J Campbell in California -- Depending on what kind of work you produce, go to a few trade shows and juried shows, big ones. I don't mean as a participant, i mean to attend for purposes of evaluation. Look at the individual booths of the artists, and see how they present their work. Pick up their literature ... it might have the name of their rep on it. Also look for booths of reps showing the work of their artists. I used to have a rep in the beginning of my glass business who showed my work at trade shows, along with lots of other items by other people. If you go to a few of these shows, you will have the opportunity to meet reps and set up future appointments after the show is over. If you are just starting out and are not experienced in business yet, my advice is to start out with accounts close to home so you can call on them and be a presence. This will ensure getting paid, and you frequently get great ideas from store owners. Avoid consignment. Get some references so you can know the credit-worthiness of the stores, and the track record of the rep. There are many, many shows of all types in SF and LA. Good luck! Kitty.
Sara
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: Magdalena, New Mexico, USA

Post by Sara »

Good Point Terry,

What your suggesting is much as I feel. If you have someone with you to do the selling at your booth then you are the presence. I absolutely will not walk into a store with my work yet have not problem selling at a show. I think of the booth as my corner of the world or my territory and can shine whilst in it:) Plus when people walk by my booth and don't stop it doesn't bother me 'cause again I'm in my territory. If I go into a gallery or store I'm in their realm :oops: this is a throw back to my beginnings back in the 70s selling macrame' :wink:

I am an obnoxious self-promoter also.

Sara
Colin & Helen

Post by Colin & Helen »

At one time I was thing about using one....the only one I could find that had dealings with craft offered a very good service... but I could not afford the fees charged or produce the amount of glass they would require..... A/F...... agents fee 25% plus 100 to 200% for the shops mark up ......the amount required was 1,000 or over and of the same design .Exhibitions could also be arranged the venue would be booked colour catalog printed invites sent out.. the only thing the artist had to do was produce the glass art ,turn up for the opening,and pay the agents fee........
Colin
Leslie Ihde

agents

Post by Leslie Ihde »

I just want to say how much I truly appreciate the replies to my inquiry about agents and selling. I have saved many of the posts to a file to review, and to remind myself of the excellent advise I have received. I feel like I've just taken a course in marketing art while not doing more than feels right as an artist. I will take some of these steps and I won't whine about how can I sell more until I have followed up. Now can you send me some extra courage? Thanks again, Leslie.
J Campbell
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 2:54 pm
Location: CA
Contact:

Post by J Campbell »

Thank You, for the ideas. I live in Northern CA.

Jane
Post Reply