mailing lists

kelly alge · Post by **kelly alge** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 9:04 am

Is it totally wrong and unethical to add people who purchase your work to your mailing list without them requesting to be on it? ( taking the name & addy off the check ) I don't think I'd care if I had purchased something from another artist and they did that, but does it seem like an invasion of privacy?

Phil Hoppes · Post by **Phil Hoppes** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:01 am

Yes, at least I think so. In this day and age of SPAM, telemarketing and everything else that invades my privacy I want to have the choice to opt in to someone's mailing list Even if I have purchased something from you that does not mean I want to receive email, bulk mail or the like. I buy lots of stuff from places on line but I if I have the choice I never let them mail me. If I want something else from them, I know where they are at and where to get something. You should allow your customers to choose. In addition, you should have a written policy of how you will protect their privacy should they choose to be on you mailing list. I will not give anyone info if I know for a fact that they are going to sell or distribute that mailing list.

Just my $0.02

Phil

Nancy Juhasz · Post by **Nancy Juhasz** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:32 am

I agree with Phil. I always tell people that write a check or use a credit card that I will not use the information for any reason other than to get in touch with them incase the check or card don't go through. I do get phone numbers for this purpose. What I do instead of using a mailing list is include 2 or 3 business cards in with a purchase and say to the customer " I am including some of my cards, one for you and a couple for your friends that like my work". Then I say something to the effect that I will gladly ship for just what it costs me. Nanc

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:51 pm

kelly alge wrote:Is it totally wrong and unethical to add people who purchase your work to your mailing list without them requesting to be on it? ( taking the name & addy off the check ) I don't think I'd care if I had purchased something from another artist and they did that, but does it seem like an invasion of privacy?

Ask them.

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:13 pm

I don't see it as a major privacy issue; I'm not collecting lots of names and I'm not sending out tons of junk. It's rare to be turned down when I ask a browser if they'd like to be on my mailing list. And I do keep the addresses from checks and I do ask for them with credit cards.

And I don't share my list or borrow from anyone else, so far.
Any offers?

How else are you going to keep your collectors informed of your continued developments? Hope they'll come back to that particular show or find you again on the web? Too chancy.

Ruth Gowell · Post by **Ruth Gowell** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:01 pm

I agree with Marty -I also add anyone who purchases from me to my mailing list - as well as having a book out at shows so that people can get on my mailing list. I only use the mailing list when I am doing a show, and I use my own postcard (and try to have it new most of the time) with show info on the back of the card. I also have a date entered in my data base and I usually go back a certain number of years, so that people don't get cards endlessly. Many sales at shows come from these mailings - it never occured to me that people would mind. And of course I never give these lists away (and sometimes shows do ask - the Smithsonian requested mailing lists to send a mailing for the online auction) but I just make it a policy not to do so. I have begun to have people request that they be notified by email but not having collected email addresses all these years (and they probably go out of date even quicker than addresses) I haven't begun to deal with that.

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 6:36 pm

I simply ask. "Would you like to be added to my mailing list?" And the answer has so far been yes from purchasers. The only other way I get names is if they sign my book which reads clearly across the top..."Mailing List" I am clear that I do not sell names and addresses to others and that I would only be making contact to let them know about new work, new exhibitions, blah, blah, blah.

rodney · Post by **rodney** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:39 am

if somebody buys something from you, or even inquires about your work, i say put em on your list,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if they send you an email that says,,, "take me off your list", take em off,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this idea of invasion of privacy, and you need to get their permission, come on, if somebody knows you, it isnt spam,,,,,its better to sell something, and keep the studio going, than it is to wring your hands about what somebody might think about how you are invading their "space",,,rodney

kelly alge · Post by **kelly alge** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:47 am

I guess I should have clarified what I planned to send/ how often I planned to send it, etc. I was thinking of sending a yearly postcard (regular mail) with my retail show schedule, and a mailer to advertise a yearly holiday open studio. This would be sent only to people who have previously purchased a piece from me. I do think that a person's privacy is not to be overlooked, and I completely disagree with you, Rodney that a sale (to keep the studio running regardless of what the customer thinks) is a first priority. I like things to sell, but I choose to do it respectfully and with my customer's interests in mind. I don't want my customers to feel invaded.....but I don't think I'd like to get a postcard once in a great while from an artist I'd purchased from before.

still undecided.

Brad Walker · Post by **Brad Walker** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:19 pm

[quote="kelly alge"]I don't want my customers to feel invaded.....but I don't think I'd like to get a postcard once in a great while from an artist I'd purchased from before.
[quote]

I guess I disagree. I would LOVE to get a postcard once in a while from an artist I'd purchased from before. I don't mind this kind of mail at all; in fact, I wish I got more postcards from artists that I've supported in the past.

Consider this your invitation to send me all the postcards you'd like. My address is on the bottom of the page.

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 12:27 pm

Yeah Kelly, send me one too.

When the French literary critic Saint-Beauve (1804-1869) was challenged to a duel by a journalist more than a century ago, and thus, according to custom, was permitted the choice of weapons, he told his opponent . . .

" I choose spelling - you're dead"

rodney · Post by **rodney** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:13 pm

BRAD WRITES:I guess I disagree. I would LOVE to get a postcard once in a while from an artist I'd purchased from before. I don't mind this kind of mail at all; in fact, I wish I got more postcards from artists that I've supported in the past.

this is a wonderful example of how people feel about things,,,,,,,,,IF THEY KNOW YOU, IT ISNT SPAM,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but naturally there is gonna be one person that says YOU ARE INVADING MY PRIVACY, fine,,,,,,,,,,,,but what about the other 99 that are like brad, that would love to get something from you, are you going to allow one sour grape to keep you from getting the word out, are you gonna let one person with an ax to grind about spam keep 99 others from getting something that they would appreciate.
rodney[/b]

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:20 pm

rodney wrote:BRAD WRITES:I guess I disagree. I would LOVE to get a postcard once in a while from an artist I'd purchased from before. I don't mind this kind of mail at all; in fact, I wish I got more postcards from artists that I've supported in the past.

this is a wonderful example of how people feel about things,,,,,,,,,IF THEY KNOW YOU, IT ISNT SPAM,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but naturally there is gonna be one person that says YOU ARE INVADING MY PRIVACY, fine,,,,,,,,,,,,but what about the other 99 that are like brad, that would love to get something from you, are you going to allow one sour grape to keep you from getting the word out, are you gonna let one person with an ax to grind about spam keep 99 others from getting something that they would appreciate.
rodney[/b]

sorry, but i disagree with you. if one hasn't asked, then one shouldn't assume that it's defacto permission. furthermore, if this is electronic uce rather than smail, one should pay attention to some of the laws being drawn up. uce could become actionable in some court jurisdictions, and some national laws that are being bandied about will make matters worse for the sender.

Brad Walker · Post by **Brad Walker** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:47 pm

This is an interesting topic, because there is a significant distinction between junk (or direct) mail and junk e-mail (or spam). I don't mind junk mail at all; I figure it means the person at least spend fifty cents to a dollar or more to send me something, and even if I don't want it it's easy to toss it aside.

On the other hand, junk e-mail (spam) is virtually free to send (at least to the sender) and takes more time to get rid of because there's a huger volume of it. hat's why the regulations that are being drawn up are directed to spam, not to regular mail. The regulations for unsolicited postal mail (direct mail!) are already very well established and are not likely to be impacted by the emerging regulations for unsolicited e-mail. I suspect this difference will remain as long as the costs of sending direct mail are hugely greater than the costs of sending spam.

Terry Ow-Wing · Post by **Terry Ow-Wing** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:13 pm

I always ask! Mostly because with over 600 names on my mailing list I do not need to send out a postcard to someone who is going to just toss it. Plus when I get a enthusiastic yes it's great for my ego. Also I ask because I really want their email address. I send postcards out about 4 or 5 times a year with emails 2 days before a show. I actually get a lot of thankyous for the email reminder.

rodney · Post by **rodney** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:31 pm

TERRY OW-WING WRITES,,,,I send postcards out about 4 or 5 times a year with emails 2 days before a show. I actually get a lot of thankyous for the email reminder.

this is what im talking about,,people love to get info from people they know,,,,an email to terry thanking her for sending the reminder,,,,,this is good business,,,,,but for those who think it is an out of line to send emails, because it might upset somebody, fine,,, DONT SEND EM,,,,,im not defending my practice of sending emails to people, i do it, and dont feel guilty about it, if they dont want it,,they will send me an email, asking me to stop,,,and for the love of pete,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
IT AINT SPAM, IF YOU KNOW THE PERSON,,,,,,rodney

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:37 pm

the proper definition of spam is uce, or unsolicited commercial email.

what part of unsolicited do you not understand?

Phil Hoppes · Post by **Phil Hoppes** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:04 pm

I agree with Charlie and the point I made before. It is one thing to receive email from a friend. I have a friend for a case in point that "Spam's me" just about every other day with about 6 or 7 email jokes. It's a sensitive issue as they are a good friend and for the moment, it's not a real nusiance but if a half dozen people did that to me, friends or not, I'd complain. If you are an merchant, artist or otherwise, you need to offer your customers the CHOICE of receiving email or any other type of notification. Most vendors are now getting savy to this and more and more, when I make purchases either on line or in a store, I have the OPTION of selecting to receive notifications from this merchant. The point is, in this wired world, things are getting out of hand way to fast. I want control over who has my personal information. I want to know what they are doing with that information. I want to have control to receive or not receive mail, email or otherwise from that vendor.

This may seem heavy handed to many of you out there. Wait until you've had your identity stolen and you see the damage that can be done and the herculean effort that is required to put things back into place and you will think differently. I recently had one of my credit cards ripped off from somewhere online. Don't know how it was done and thank goodness the damage was minor and I was able to correct things in time but trust me it makes your heart jump. Now, I am very particular about any and all information that relates to me personnaly, especially when it is to be kept in a database.

I'm sure that Kelly is a fine and reputable person and will protect the privacy of her (my assumption, I don't know you Kelly) customers. That being said, unfortunately, personnally, I've had more than one person I've known VERY well that, ended up not being the person I thought that they were.

Bottom line, yes, keep a database and send out mailers but :

1) Ask permission from your customers before you send something out.

2) DO NOT SELL OR DISTRIBUTE THAT MAILING LIST. (some previous comments on this thread I believe/hope were joking that they would distribute or sell mailing lists. If they were serious, this is EXACTLY why I would not want my data in some vendors database.)

3) If someone asks, I would have a privacy policy in writing that I could give to customers so they would know just what I'm doing with that data. If I bought from you and you gave me a privacy notice that said you may at any time sell or distribute that data, well my name just became John Doe and no I won't tell you anything more about myself.

Phil

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:11 pm

Phil Hoppes wrote:2) DO NOT SELL OR DISTRIBUTE THAT MAILING LIST.

there currently is a big stink in the industry about this. seems that the 'hooked on phonics' company has this statement in their web privacy page. however, it doesn't state that they reserve the right to RENT the list out. iow, spammers can pay to have hooked on phonics send out spam to their customers. furthermore, some personal info is available to the spammer such that they can better target email.

this way, technically, the company hasn't sold or distributed their mailing list.

kelly alge · Post by **kelly alge** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:49 pm

I mis- typed my post.... I meant to say that I *would* like to get postcards from artists that I've purchased from (even not purchased from). I used to decorate the insides of my studio cabinets with them. I've never been a huge fan of political correctness, but don't go out of my way to offend others (unless they're family), so who knows? Everyone seems to be about 50/50 on it. Maybe I'll send postcards to half of the people, and hope I got the half that will appreciate them.......

WarmGlass.com

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