I recently read Marty's post about Bruce Laughlin's plight in searching for new studio space which has prompted my question for those of you who have done this or are considering it.
Currently, I am a fulltime artist working out of a home studio. I would very much like to expand and move to a retail space where public access might be more likely. As with many artists, I have limited to no start-up funds, just the equipment, desire and a dream. I have considered placing a flyer at our community arts center asking for other fellow artists (2 or 3) who would be interested in sharing a space. I am the only warm glass artist studio in the area and would like to share space with artists of other mediums. My thoughts are we could share space, phone, gallery space and utilities but each artist would operate their own separate business within that space. Prior to settling into any situation, I would consult a lawyer to draw up a contract of sorts to protect all involved.
Do any of you operate this way or in similar ways, and what are the challenges/advantages you have encountered? Thanks so much everyone!
Christyn
Shared studio space questions
Moderator: Brad Walker
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Christyn Mattson
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- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:48 pm
- Location: Clearwater, Florida
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Susan Wright
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- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:56 am
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX,KCMO, Great Lakes
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I would make sure you check with your insurance agent regarding liability for the public and then esp. for fire. I would make sure that you require everyone carry insurance or be listed on the master policy and pay their part. I have never done an artist co op but did have a co op office with a group of independant agents. You will really need to work with the landlord and your lawyer and check on the laws of sub leasing and eviction. I found that I couldn't kick anyone out that was not on the lease without major hassel and when one quit paying his share of the rent and expenses it became a horrid work atmosphere. I don't think I will ever want to go into a group thing again and be the one with the responsibility to keep it together.
Susan W
Susan W
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Cynthia
Conceptually, I love the idea of a co-op. In reality I think they can be a nightmare. Everyone involved has to participate in cleaning, paying bills, respecting others space, tools...even something like music can become a real problem. I wouldn't say don't do it, but I would be very cautious. Especially from the end of the financial responsibilties. I am finding that people will take advantage of you without a second thought when it comes to money.
I had a real problem doing work and placing orders for a friend. I was continually floating her and she frequently took advantage of me. I know, my bad for allowing it to happen.
I'm emberrased that I did this, but I would order glass for her, I would pay for it, she would write me a check and ask if I would wait until her payday to cash it. At this point, I was already out of pocket, so what else could I do but wait to cash the check? Several times her checks still wouldn't clear because her account would be empty even on her payday. Again, my bad for allowing this kind of situation to happen more than once, but because she was a "friend", I kept on floating her, would do firing jobs for her and place orders for her. She continually would pay me with post dated checks that might not clear even when I waited. This is her modus operandi...Rob Peter to pay Paul...I was Peter...It took me too long to get wise and sever the relationship. She even took advantage of another glass friend, who because he thought she was my friend gave her some sheets of glass on her word that she would replace them when she got her shipment in. As far as I know, his glass was never replaced or paid for.
Sour grapes aside. This is the kind of thing that could be even uglier if you found yourself co-oping with someone who didn't come up with the rent on time, or pay their share of the utilities or asked you to float them (and if you didn't want to lose your space, you would have to pick up the slack when others fail to do what's right).
I guess I am saying avoid this situation unless you know with absolute certainty that the people you are dealing with are honorable. Use that lawyer too and get a bullet proof contract, for all co-op participants, that spells out what each individual is responsible for and what the consequences are for defaulting. Like fences, contracts make for bettern neighbors. Even when you think you know someone, they can easily screw you without a second thought.
Guess I'm still bitter
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I had a real problem doing work and placing orders for a friend. I was continually floating her and she frequently took advantage of me. I know, my bad for allowing it to happen.
I'm emberrased that I did this, but I would order glass for her, I would pay for it, she would write me a check and ask if I would wait until her payday to cash it. At this point, I was already out of pocket, so what else could I do but wait to cash the check? Several times her checks still wouldn't clear because her account would be empty even on her payday. Again, my bad for allowing this kind of situation to happen more than once, but because she was a "friend", I kept on floating her, would do firing jobs for her and place orders for her. She continually would pay me with post dated checks that might not clear even when I waited. This is her modus operandi...Rob Peter to pay Paul...I was Peter...It took me too long to get wise and sever the relationship. She even took advantage of another glass friend, who because he thought she was my friend gave her some sheets of glass on her word that she would replace them when she got her shipment in. As far as I know, his glass was never replaced or paid for.
Sour grapes aside. This is the kind of thing that could be even uglier if you found yourself co-oping with someone who didn't come up with the rent on time, or pay their share of the utilities or asked you to float them (and if you didn't want to lose your space, you would have to pick up the slack when others fail to do what's right).
I guess I am saying avoid this situation unless you know with absolute certainty that the people you are dealing with are honorable. Use that lawyer too and get a bullet proof contract, for all co-op participants, that spells out what each individual is responsible for and what the consequences are for defaulting. Like fences, contracts make for bettern neighbors. Even when you think you know someone, they can easily screw you without a second thought.
Guess I'm still bitter
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Terry Ow-Wing
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- Location: San Francisco, Ca.
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Re: Shared studio space questions
You might have to consider what other types of mediums can be compatible with glass. According to other artist friends one in painting and one in clothing the "noise" we make cutting, grinding glass is way too much and it destroys their creative space...something to think about.
Christyn Mattson wrote:......I have considered placing a flyer at our community arts center asking for other fellow artists (2 or 3) who would be interested in sharing a space. I am the only warm glass artist studio in the area and would like to share space with artists of other mediums. My thoughts are we could share space, phone, gallery space and utilities but each artist would operate their own separate business within that space. Prior to settling into any situation, I would consult a lawyer to draw up a contract of sorts to protect all involved.
Do any of you operate this way or in similar ways, and what are the challenges/advantages you have encountered? Thanks so much everyone!
Christyn
Co-op situations are tough and the best way to make them work is to plan the set-up as a group, brainstorm every possible issue in advance, and <gasp> establish ground rules right up front that everyone can live with and has to honor or they're out of the game. May sound harsh, but it will go a long way toward guaranteeing the success of the partnership. Having said that, I doubt you could pay me enough money to ever participate in a co-op again. At my age, it's challenging enough just having employees!
LOL,
Ms. Impatience O. Biddy
LOL,
Ms. Impatience O. Biddy
Structure is a wonderful thing. Speaking as a landlord who just got back from court....
If I was in the no $ category: Be the landlord and rent space to others. You can be as liberal, or harsh as your conscience will allow, but if someone doesn't pay you can evict them. Also , unless you get seperate services for the spaces, you will have issues on Bill splitting, if you get in with a similar power hog like glass. As for the gallery, who's job is it to open the doors etc, when you have concurrent fairs to go to?
Imagine you are in a house with 5 roomies. Who does the dishes, let the dog out, never takes the trash out, or has a noisy bedroom habit, can become a major hassle.
If you wish it to thrive, run it by the books, as a business, with EVERYTHING written down.
It sounds like a downer, but it can save you bigger downer's later.
Greg
If I was in the no $ category: Be the landlord and rent space to others. You can be as liberal, or harsh as your conscience will allow, but if someone doesn't pay you can evict them. Also , unless you get seperate services for the spaces, you will have issues on Bill splitting, if you get in with a similar power hog like glass. As for the gallery, who's job is it to open the doors etc, when you have concurrent fairs to go to?
Imagine you are in a house with 5 roomies. Who does the dishes, let the dog out, never takes the trash out, or has a noisy bedroom habit, can become a major hassle.
If you wish it to thrive, run it by the books, as a business, with EVERYTHING written down.
It sounds like a downer, but it can save you bigger downer's later.
Greg
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Susan Wright
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:56 am
- Location: Corpus Christi, TX,KCMO, Great Lakes
- Contact:
Check to see what the landlord tenant laws are in your area. You would be subletting space and standard evection may not apply. I was on the lease/rental agreement with another party. We sublet space to several others and when they failed to pay we could not evect them since we were not the landlord (building owner) and he didn't care since we continued to pay him in order to not hurt our credit. I ended up going with my lease partner and getting my name off the lease and moving out leaving the mess to him. He shortly moved out too just to end the headaches. This was such a bad experience for me that I am very gun shy on entering into any such situations again. Life was hell during this time just from such a bad scene at the office. I would call ahead to find out who was in and decide on if I would go to the office or hide out/stay away. This was not an artists co op but people are people and when money becomes involved things change.
Susan W
Susan W