Cloud Dome vs. Pro Photographer

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AVLucky
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Cloud Dome vs. Pro Photographer

Post by AVLucky »

I'm kind of in a transitional phase right now as far as shows are concerned. I've been doing the small, inexpensive, mostly local ones for a few years. It's been a good learning experience, but I'm ready to try for some higher-end venues. And that means slides. I know it's critical to have excellent quality, but I am working on a limited budget. I don't want to compromise quality, but money is a big issue.
I've had a friend (who is skilled but lacks good studio equipment) do some photography for me recently, but I don't know if that's really the best arrangement. When the shots are good, they're very good, but about half of the time there have been lighting problems. I've seen the Cloud Dome setup and wondered if it would be worth the investment. It seems like a simple way to eliminate the lighting issues, and it's sized perfectly for my jewelry work. Does anyone out there use this system? Does it give decent results? Or, should I say, jury-quality results? Otherwise, how much should I expect to spend on professional slides?
charlie holden
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Post by charlie holden »

I pay my guy $100 per hour and he's worth every penny. Once things are set up, the pieces go into and out of the set pretty quickly and it's not that expensive.

Remember, many more people are likely to see your work through your slides than will see it in person. All it takes is one add, a photo published in a book or a couple of slide presentations at a school or conference. People that look at lots of slides can tell the difference.

ch
Claudia Whitten
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Post by Claudia Whitten »

Charlie,
I agree with everything that you said. A good photoapher is worth evey penny you pay him. I live in remote area and do not have access to a really good photographer and the ones that think they are are not much better than I can do myself. So, I have decided to learn to photograph myself. Huge learning curve.........I just want to make the glass.....
You are lucky to have access to one. Not having good photos or slides of your work I feel can really hold one back. I think she wants advice to help to do the best she can at this point. I don't know where she lives but maybe she doesn't have access to a professional photographer...........Claudia
Andrew
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It's the competition . . .

Post by Andrew »

Getting into shows is competitive. An excellent photographer can make a very good piece of work look sublime. An amateur photographer can (and often do) make a wonderful piece of work look average.

Remember that you are competing with artists who have their best work professionally photographed. If you go to enough shows, you'll notice that the artists who consistently get into shows are the ones with well organized booths, professionally done brochures and professionally photographed work.

Andrew
Amy Schleif-Mohr
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Post by Amy Schleif-Mohr »

I agree that a good photographer is worth the money. I myself have yet to use one, they are very expensive. I do want to caution you though, not every professional photographer knows how to shoot glass. GET REFRENCES! And be sure you see their work first before you plunk any money down. I know many, many artists who were very disappointed in the slides from the pro.

Amy
kelly alge
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Post by kelly alge »

I would be one of those who has spent $$$ for professional slides that are not what I had hoped. Your jury slides will make you or break you, so they have to make your work stand out above the others. At most of my shows, the jewelry category is the most competitive to get into. I would definitely agree with not paying anything until you see samples of the photographer's work. I would also recommend showing the photographer examples of photos from magazines or brochures that you want your slides to compare to.

I'm interested in knowing how the cloud dome works for jewelry, too, but it seems really expensive. I've had decent success shooting my own jewelry slides through one of those cone collars they use on dogs to keep them from chewing stitches after surgery- they're frosted plastic and reduce the glare on glass... I'd rather spend the money on a good lens or something.

Good luck!
kelly alge

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Barbara Muth
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Post by Barbara Muth »

Check out this site:

http://www.conniefox.com/Education/Stud ... lPhoto.htm

Connie Fox has generously shared her jewelry photography set-up. I think you will find it to be cheaper and just as effective as the cloud dome.

Barbara
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Marty
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Post by Marty »

Most photographers I've worked with have re-shot unsuccessful shots at their cost (I did pay for film and processing). It's important to discuss this, along with ownership of the images, before starting.
Paul Housberg
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Post by Paul Housberg »

You can build simple lighting system that will give professional results for, maybe, twenty-five bucks, if that. The hard part is learning how to frame your shots and figure out exposures. But, if you don't mind wasting some film in the process and all you need are 35mm slides, you can do this and it's a valuable skill to have. In addition to the lighting, you'll need a decent camera (an SLR), a tripod, and a table to set your jewelry on (you do have a table?).

The lighting consists of a pyramid shaped box made of white foam-core. The sides can be simply taped together. The size is not critical, but you want it larger than the work you're shooting. Figure two feet plus at the bottom.

The top of the pyramid is cut off so you can drop a tungsten bulb through the opening. (I don't remember whether it's a 3200 degree kelvin or 3400, but you want one that's balanced for tungsten slide film.) The bulb gets hot, so be sure the bulb does not contact the foam core. You can Micky Mouse this with a clamp-on light (without reflector), a stick of wood across the top, duct tape, whatever.

Across the bottom, you stretch (loosely) a piece of gauzy white fabric, lining material or something called butterfly material (I think, ask at your friendly fabric store). The whole shebang is then suspended above your table. Set your jewelry on a plain background and—this is important—bring the light as close to the jewelry as possible without getting it in the picture frame.

The other bit of gear you may need is a polarizing lense for your camera. This will help you control reflections. Now you need to learn something about proper exposure. Maybe your photographer friend can help you with that.

If this is not clear, email your fax no. or email address and you send you a sketch.
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Paul Housberg
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Paul Housberg
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Post by Paul Housberg »

An addendum to my previous post: The fabric should be stretched tight enough so there isn't excessive sag, but it doesn't have to be so tight you can bounce a coin off it. This isn't critical, just easier to work with if the fabric doesn't sag a lot.
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Paul Housberg
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Dani
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Post by Dani »

Lapidary Journal had a multi-part article recently on photographing on the cheap. You might check their website and see if it's posted there. Also, Charles Lewton-Brain has a book on small scale photography that you can get through Rio Grande. Both apply to jewelry, but there are strong similarities with glass due to the reflective nature of the materials. When the Cloud Dome was first released, there was also extensive discussion on the orchid jewelry board, as well as similar home-made alternatives to making your own. Go check http://www.ganoksin.com for that info. Finally, having been through all that... I go for the pro photographer route. Slides will make or break you. We've discussed that a lot right here.... check the archives for more input. And don't feel you're tied to a local photog... you could ship some work to someone whose been highly recommended. Look in magazines and at the gallery shots here. Which images are really great and then find out who shot them.
AVLucky
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Post by AVLucky »

Hi everyone.
Thanks so much for your input. I think I was kind of looking for someone to tell me what I already knew but didn't want to hear: I have to bite the bullet and pay for the quality I want. I am located near a major metropolitan area, so there should be no shortage of photographers. I'll be sure to inquire about their crafts photo experience/portfolio before I commit to someone.
And as a side note to Paul, the setup my friend and I built was fairly similar to what you described: White foamcore construction, clip on lamp (but with a color-corrected daylight bulb instead of tungsten), shot with an SLR on a tripod. But a table? What's that? If I get one does that mean I can stop using my telekinetic powers to make the jewelry levitate in midair? :wink:

AV
Paul Housberg
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Post by Paul Housberg »

I'm not convinced that you can't do it yourself. If you've already got the set-up, then it's a matter of practice. (you used a polarizer and brought the box to just beyond the picture frame? Also, the tungsten bulbs are 150 watts - was your daylight bulb as bright?).

What are you not happy with in the photos you've shot?
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Paul Housberg
Glass Project, Inc.
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AVLucky
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Post by AVLucky »

Okay. Maybe I'll try to troubleshoot a little before I give up entirely. My setup did not have the fabric to diffuse the light, so I think that alone would make a big difference in eliminating hot spots, as well as adding a polarizing lens. I can also experiment with bulb wattages, and the placement of the whole lighting system. I hope this doesn't sound like a silly question, but if you are tring to shoot a piece from directly above (as for flat work) how can you light it from directly above?
Paul Housberg
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Post by Paul Housberg »

The fabric and polarizing lens will make a huge difference. You may not be able to shoot from directly above, but you can tilt the surface as well as the soft-box (lighting apparatus) to get close to perpendicular to the object.

You may find that your camera, soft-box, and subject are all very close together (the soft box may be inches from the subject), so you may need to shade the camera lens. I would also shoot at night or in a darkened room so you don't get any color shift from ambient light. You want the ambient light at least three stops lower than the light on your subject.

Not to complicate things, but if you have a handheld light meter and know how to use a gray card, you'll get a better exposure without shooting a lot of film. But even if you're using the camera's light meter, you can make it work. I would shoot a test roll of several objects bracketing at half-steps and keeping good notes for your exposures. I would shoot one half step over the meter reading, a full stop over the meter reading, the meter reading, one half step under, and one full stop under for a total of five shots per object. Keep records of your exposures and shoot the same sequence each time so you can match up your slides with your notes.

Get yourself a loupe and examine your slides on a light table. The lab I use has color corrected light tables and will provide a loupe as well as free, often good, advice.

You'll probably find that your best exposure for any given object will be pretty consitent provided your set-up doesn't change. In other words, if you don't move the light or the camera and simply replace the object you're shooting, the exposure should remain the same—or very close—regardless of the color or tone of the object. Rotating the polarizer may effect the exposure slightly, but I find, for example, that my best exposure is consistently one half stop less than what my camera's meter tells me and, if bracketing at half stops, I get at least three exposures that are acceptable for slide submissions. You may get different results. Note that the polarizer may require a one stop over exposure than what a hand-held indicates.

Give it another go.
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Paul Housberg
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