Copyright violation - illegal and unethical

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Phil Hoppes
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Location: Overgaard, AZ

Post by Phil Hoppes »

I digress a little too but what Dani just said and words of others strikes a cord with me personnally too. Background - I just sold my home and bought another. In the process of the sale of my old home things got delayed because the buyer could not find any insurance company that would insure my home. I was floored as there was no reason for this. They claimed we filed a major flood damage claim in the previous year. I said no. They came back and said that C.L.U.E. is reporting a major damage claim to my house.

Want to know what C.L.U.E. is? It is some major database that is maintained and used by insurance companies to check up on all of us. Well the database is wrong and changing it is almost impossible. The company that maintains this database REFUSES to give a public phone number so that you may contact them. You must first call some stupid automated system or file online and they will send you a report. After you get the report on the bottom of the report is a phone number you can call to get things corrected. Well, I've been calling, going to web sites since the middle of March and still I have no report and no way to correct this. My house sold but only after I got a letter from my agent. Yes, my agent NOT my insurance company because they shut down the department that use to handle issues such as this. So what do we have? A system where you can be publically slandered by companies supported by big insurance companies that shut down customer service departments.

If I ran my studio business like insurance companies here is what I would be able to do:

I would have customers pay for commissions beforehand, in full and on a continuing basis. If they actually wanted me to deliver that commission I would raise the amount that they would pay in the future and put their name on the Glass Artisits Customer Database list and would prevent them from buying any glass from any other artist for 3 years. This is a good gig!!!

Sorry for the soap box but this issue has me really p*E*#*E*ed off. :evil:

There is no privacy anymore and you really need to stand up and kick and scream to make things right.

Phil
Dani
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Post by Dani »

Thanks for posting this, Phil.... another part of the Big New Nightmare is incorrect information haunting you and no recourse to set the record straight! The feeling of helplessness is so incredibly frustrating. Judith is experiencing it, you have felt it, too. It is maddening! Because the laws are decidedly against fairness and the common folk. It's time to raise a stink. Consumers may tend to be complacent, but stupid we're not. Right?
Phil Hoppes
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Overgaard, AZ

Getting way OT but it needs to be said

Post by Phil Hoppes »

Yes Dani, in this wired, minicam, networked society we are living 1984 more than people believe. Our rights as individuals are being trampled daily and the excuse is "more security" or " for the public good" or some other lame excuse. Go see the movie Gattica. Our future is rapidly moving in that direction. People will continue to believe the hype....right up until it affects you and you realize what an entangled mess it all is and how difficult it is to correct things when they are wrong. We are all being cataloged, stamped, labeled and goodness knows what else. Our private interests are being sold to the highest bidder. We are watched as we surf the net, shop in a store, drive on the street and if they could I swear there would be a camera in our homes. Here is a little tidbit probably most of you don't know. Are you using that new XP version of Windows from our buddy Billy Gates? The media player in there "phones home" and tells Microsoft what you have been listening to and watching without your permission. Nice huh? Makes you wonder what other jewel's they've hidden away in their software doesn't it?

Be active, Be aware, Don't let your privacy get trampled. :evil:

Phil
Erik Brown

Post by Erik Brown »

Patricia O'Neill >>> ...snip...
It happened to me a couple months ago. Someone took a picture from my site and used it on his own. It was not done well because he put a link from his site to my file, and it showed up in my statistics. Otherwise, I would never have known about it.
...snip... <<<

Is the link still there? Or others like it? That would be great! There are so many things you could do! What they've done is give you control over a portion of their website. What you would do is change the name of the original picture, and change the code of your own website to reflect that name change. That way, your website would be unaffected by what you do to theirs. Next, you replace the CONTENT of the picture (or pictures) they were stealing (without changing the names) with something more to your liking, like maybe a big fat sign that says "I like to steal pictures from other people's websites". Or perhaps a different piece of your own with text on it that says "Do you like this piece? Go to html_link.com, which is where this idiot stole this picture from". Or, find a picture of something really grotesque (public domain, of course, or get permission). You get the idea.

Erik
Dani
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Post by Dani »

And Erik has pointed out another way our lives can be invaded.... ! And our rights trampled. If you can follow these instructions, so can someone else on your website and for less justifiable reasons. Sometimes I think doing business on the internet is like setting up shop in a war zone. Yikes! For that matter, just having a bank account puts you at a crook's, the bank's and the info gatherers mercy. Become informed... life isn't just a conspiracy "theory" anymore in the land of the so-called free.
Erik Brown

Post by Erik Brown »

Dani >>> And Erik has pointed out another way our lives can be invaded.... ! And our rights trampled. If you can follow these instructions, so can someone else on your website and for less justifiable reasons. Sometimes I think doing business on the internet is like setting up shop in a war zone. Yikes! For that matter, just having a bank account puts you at a crook's, the bank's and the info gatherers mercy. Become informed... life isn't just a conspiracy "theory" anymore in the land of the so-called free. <<<

While I agree with the last two statements, I don't understand the first part. What I suggested Patricia could do was only made possible by the thief's own actions. The thief took a website they legitimately (presumably) control, and placed code in it to load pictures from Patricia's website. Since Patricia owns the site, she can change that stolen content to something that makes the thief look bad. If the thief had actually copied the picture and used their own web resources to post it, the revenge trick doesn't work. Nobody else can change Patricia's website without actually breaking in, which is a different subject.

Erik
Barbara Muth
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Re: Copyright violation - illegal and unethical

Post by Barbara Muth »

getting back to Judy's original post....
judith wrote:
.....
I post it as a reminder for those tempted, and as an educationnal posting for those who might somehow not know, that it is legally and ethically wrong to use pictures of work designed and created by others, without their knowledge or permission, for any reason. And it is escpecially wrong (and illegal) to use those photos to promote yourself in a way that implies that the work is yours, leading the reader to infer that it is indeed yours.

We (Vitrum Studio) recently discovered that a woman in Hagerstown, MD, has decided to teach glass fusing classes. She put out a flyer announcing her classes, using pictures of work taken from our web site and from other web sites (Peggy Carr and others) inferring that the work was hers.
.....

Aside from any legal action we (and Peggy Carr) may take, we want to use this violation as an entry into a positive discussion on this board to promote knowledge and understanding of ethics in art.

We have already instigated discussion with the professional teachers in the area, trying to design a way to include a lesson in ethics in our beginning courses. We would appreciate any comments and suggestions you all might have.

thanks,
judith
I have to say that it amazes me that someone could be so brazen as to steal images from websites and place them on a flyer for the class she was teaching without properly crediting the artists, thus somehow implying that she would be teaching people how to make these works. Frankly, it boggles my mind that this person would be stealing images of works done by local artists who would be likely to hear about this (as Judy did).

I have been thinking about all of the things I didn't know when I was first fusing glass. Whenever I saw someone's work I would look at it carefully and think to myself about how I could make it, and about how much it would cost me to make it. I try not to be rude and hope that I never walked into someone's booth and announced that I could make something in there and make it for less. There is plenty of rudeness out there. As time went on I learned about all of the other costs associated with production of glass art and began to realise that what I had once considered expensive was actually quite reasonable and maybe even inexpensive.

I would like to see some education offered around that. I think it is important for budding artists to understand all the costs associated with making a living as a glass artist so that they can appreciate the appropriateness of pricing, can more ably price their own work, and have greater respect for those brave enough to make a living as glass artists.

I never would have thought that ethics needed to be taught in a glass fusing class but this event has made that exceeding clear. While someone copying a work could argue that they were trying to learn from a master, selling their copies of an artist's work in stores just down the street from the gallery that represents that artist (and I just saw that this past month) is unethical. While it may not be actionable, I see it as theft. Taking someone's images from a website and representing them as your own (if not explicitly, them implicitly) is theft.

How would this be taught? Anyone out there with ethics instruction as a vocation?

just call me stymied and amazed...
Barbara
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Paul Tarlow
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Post by Paul Tarlow »

Patricia O'Neill wrote:As per using your name and other people name without permission, this is illegal.
I have seen many web pages of glass people who give the long list of all the worshops they attended with instructor name and, if it gives a free advertising to the instructor, it should not be written without his/her permission. Paying for a worshop gives a student the authorisation to use what he/she learned, not to use the name of the instructor in thinking it will make you look better.
Using another's name is not, in itself, illegal. Using it improperly (as with defamation, false attribution, etc.) can be illegal -- but you you are going to have to show that some harm was (or will be) done to the name-owner.

Attending a class taught by a known artist becomes a legitimate part of one's resume. Promoting yourself with that resume is equally legitmate -- so long as the reference is factually accurate and does not imply endorsement by the artist.

- Paul
Dani
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Post by Dani »

I think you're right, Paul.... even if I don't want someone to use my name, as long as the statement is fact (and, in some cases, even stated opinion), there's nothing I can do about it. It's such a fine line.... I do think Judith's original post is an example of stretching things a bit far, don't you?
Paul Tarlow
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Post by Paul Tarlow »

Dani wrote:I think you're right, Paul.... even if I don't want someone to use my name, as long as the statement is fact (and, in some cases, even stated opinion), there's nothing I can do about it. It's such a fine line.... I do think Judith's original post is an example of stretching things a bit far, don't you?
No question.

What Judith describes is plagerism, misrepresentation and fraud and should be treated as such.

- Paul
Barbara Cashman
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Post by Barbara Cashman »

I can add my name to the aggravatingly long list of those wronged. Without going into detail on the public board (email me off-board if you can help), I would like to know if any of you have seen my tile work in tile showrooms in your area. You know the lines (I hope): Block Party, Nuggets, Cassandra Rakku, Hearthside, Poolside, etc. I have discovered that there are several tile showrooms out there that have my product samples which are being used to sell a knockoff. And I have no idea where they are. If you have seen my product somewhere, I would greatly appreciate being notified. I will know if they are an authorized dealer. I guess it's up to us to look out for each other. I am a great admirer of Peggy Carr, having had her visit me many years back. Great lady and does fantastic work. Judith, of course, you are high on my list of creative and ethical people. The circumstance you posted is very "lawsuit-persuable". And I encourage you to go for it. I joined a low-cost legal help system (much like an HMO) and would be happy to share info with anyone about that route. - Burned Barbara (GlasTile)
Paul Tarlow
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Post by Paul Tarlow »

Barbara Cashman wrote:The circumstance you posted is very "lawsuit-persuable".
There are two things one can get out of a lawsuit: 1) make them stop and 2) recover damages.

There are usually more cost-effective ways to get someone to stop that kind of behavior. A registered cease-and-desist letter with a threat to pursue legal action if they don't -- even when the letter comes from a non-lawyer -- will usually achieved the desired result. Sometimes it takes only a phone call (though a punch would be more satisfying).

Collecting damages requires you prove and quantify damages. Unfortunately that can be difficult in a case like this -- and probably impossible on a scale to pay legal expenses.

A number of years back the home owners association hired a landscaping company to mow all the residents front yards (all town homes with postage stamp yards strung together). I called the landscaping company and told them to stay out of my yard that I'd mow it myself.

Well, they not only ignored me, they cut all the lower branches from my one tree so that they could more easily get their mower through my yard. These were the same branches that 1) my daughter climbed on and 2) provided privacy for those walking by on the sidewalk about 12 feet from my living room.

I called a lawyer figuring I had an easy case. The answer I got was that I had to prove monetary value of the branches (which he thought would be difficult to do) and that best case the branches were worth less than his fees. He said that if I wanted to incur the expense of suing to punish them he would be happy to oblige -- but that I needed to understand I'd be out money in the end.

I fumed for weeks.

I suspect that Judith is in a similar boat. She was clearly wronged. She can take legal recourse and inflict some well-deserved pain on the other party (if only in dragging them to court). But doing so is just going to get her one more bill to pay.

- Paul
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