does anyone have an ED HOY account - WarmGlass.com

does anyone have an ED HOY account

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rodney
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does anyone have an ED HOY account

Postby rodney » Mon May 19, 2003 2:34 pm

i just called ed hoy,,,and the hoops you have to jump through is very difficult for me,, unless you send them your life story you cant even get a price quote,,,i need to find out the price of the HOTLINE FUSERS FLUE, by the 10 lb bag,,,,,,,,,if anyone has an account and would be so kind as to get this info, maybe i can order, and we can figure out something that would be good for both of us,,,
,,,,thanks so much, rodney

Cynthia

Postby Cynthia » Mon May 19, 2003 3:09 pm

Yes. Why?

Barbara Cashman
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Postby Barbara Cashman » Mon May 19, 2003 6:25 pm

Rodney, some of us have wholesale accounts because we jumped through all those hoops and qualified. I, for one, am very supportive of distributors who create those hoops. They protect me from those who would circumvent the system and put my retail shop out of business. Bottom line, that's what it's all about. We have had a retail stained glass business since 1983, and especially since the invention of the internet (thank you, Al :? ), it is impossible to profit by inventorying supplies for the hobbyist and craftsperson when they can buy direct. This is not to infer that you are a hobbyist, but the filters are in place to protect those who put out a lot of cash, etc. to provide a commercial location and inventory for those who need the supplies. I am certain that, if you approach your local retail store, they will give you a discount for a large quantity of a product. For instance, if a customer wants a full sheet of glass, rather than a few square feet, we always discount it. That means we don't have to inventory the excess, so it's a win-win for both. Check this route out. - Barbara

Dani
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Postby Dani » Mon May 19, 2003 7:18 pm

There really aren't that many wholesale hoops these days when it comes down to it. The biggest one is commitment, and that's defined by being willing to pay for a business telephone line with it's attached yellow pages listing.... and being willing to commit to a minimum opening order which in some cases is as low as $600. Making the commitment gives you the benefits of the professional business person. Having said all that, did you check with Warner-Crivellaro at the link above to see if they carry the product? They sell retail also.

Barbara Cashman
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Postby Barbara Cashman » Mon May 19, 2003 8:11 pm

Hi Dani. Love ya girl, but (truthfully) WC is one of the companies I did NOT talk about for very obvious reasons. "MY OPINION" They cut the edge between wholesale and retail and diminish the viability of both. That's the reason I suggested Rodney present his needs to his retailer. A retailer is usually more than willing to make a little cut and keep a customer than remove the option to make a sale of any kind. And, it creates the kind of business interaction that we all need to stay viable. We all want to stay in business, and WC and other companies like that, can make it more difficult by trying to milk both markets. Again..."MY OPINION". Enough said. Rodney, you can check out what you will. - Barbara

Barbara Cashman
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Postby Barbara Cashman » Mon May 19, 2003 8:48 pm

Addendum....I just noticed that WC is a sponsor of our board. Oh well, another politically incorrect statement. :? Good thing none of our other sponsors have been hitherto exempt from flak. Nonetheless, I would be much interested in any comment from WC regarding my comments, which stem from other converstaions with retailers I talk to. - Barbara

Cynthia

Postby Cynthia » Tue May 20, 2003 1:36 am

:?: Your original post changed from when I first responded to it, unless I'm losing my marbles...it's possible.

Frankly, even if you found someone to order the glue, then paid the shipping and paid again to get it shipped to you, and made it somehow worth their effort to place the order for you, you'll end up paying retail or more anyway. Wholesale makes sense only if you can buy in quantity. Barbara makes a good point that your local retailer may be willing to help you with a price break if you are purchasing in quantitiy, or can get together with a buying group that purchases through your retailer.

If you are looking for a supplier, and can't seem to find one who sells Hotline products in the volume you need...check with them as well to see if they would special order you the size you need.

charlie
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Postby charlie » Tue May 20, 2003 12:16 pm

Cynthia Oliver wrote::?: Your original post changed from when I first responded to it, unless I'm losing my marbles...it's possible.

Frankly, even if you found someone to order the glue, then paid the shipping and paid again to get it shipped to you, and made it somehow worth their effort to place the order for you, you'll end up paying retail or more anyway. Wholesale makes sense only if you can buy in quantity. Barbara makes a good point that your local retailer may be willing to help you with a price break if you are purchasing in quantitiy, or can get together with a buying group that purchases through your retailer.

If you are looking for a supplier, and can't seem to find one who sells Hotline products in the volume you need...check with them as well to see if they would special order you the size you need.


10 lbs isn't in quantity? what normal hobbiest uses that much glue at one time?

i think you'll find that lots of web retailers don't have a yellow pages ad or storefront. which yellow pages would they want to be in anyway?

Geri Comstock
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Postby Geri Comstock » Tue May 20, 2003 1:25 pm

Charlie -

Let me try to clarify this from a business perspective. "In quantity" means more than 10 pounds of glue. It means that when you buy from them you buy alot of stuff in large quantities. For example, when I buy glass from my supplier (wholesale), I spend about $1200 on 30+ sheets.

How much is 10 pounds of glue? $50? $100? That's not quantity in terms of how wholesalers view it.

Wholesalers want large orders from repeat customers who are truly in business. Anyone can order 10 pounds of glue every couple of years for themselves and 20 of their best friends to split. Not that that's what Rodney is doing here, but if that was what defined quantity, that's what could and probably would happen. The wholesalers are protecting themselves and their customers by requiring minimums.

Just like I can't go directly to Sealy and buy a new mattress at a wholesale price, fusers who aren't in business can't buy at wholesale prices.

Geri

Cynthia

Postby Cynthia » Tue May 20, 2003 1:36 pm

charlie wrote:
Cynthia Oliver wrote::?: ... Wholesale makes sense only if you can buy in quantity...


10 lbs isn't in quantity? what normal hobbiest uses that much glue at one time?... I think you'll find that lots of web retailers don't have a yellow pages ad or storefront. which yellow pages would they want to be in anyway?


Well, no, 10 lbs. isn't quantity. A few crates of glass (a pallete holds 3 crates, a crate holds 40 sheets of glass), several molds, a couple of 10 lb. bags of glue, a few boxes of primer, a roll of thinfire all in one order is quantitiy :lol: . One bag of anything, 10 lbs or more, is going to be shipped UPS with a handling fee attached for placing an order that is less than a certain dollar amount, so right there you are probably in it for $15-20 in shipping and handling alone. When you order wholesale it only makes sense cost-wise to order in quantity to get the highest cost break and the lowest shipping costs.

When Dani refers to a yellow pages ad, she means as a glass artist in business you often have a yellow pages listing. Wholesalers ask for that listing as proof you are in business as well as a copy of your license, a phone bill for your business, accounts with other wholesalers as proof you qualify for wholesale status (among other documents), then a minimum purchase amount and a minimum yearly purchase amount.

The web retailers get found because we search for them, or through links for sponsors like on this board. I happen to like them for when I simply need a new tool, or a single item now, but am not ready to place a full order with my wholesaler. My retailer often doesn't carry what I need. He can order if for me, but it is more cost effiective for me to purchase online typically, and I can get it faster too since my retailer will wait and tag on my item to his next full purchase order. I do however support my local retailer, I need him to be here and thriving in this community. I send my students (I occasionally teach individuals in my studio...not on the circuit) to him for glass supplies, books, other classes in other techniques that I don't teach or for group classes...It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

I'm not going to make Barbara happy here, but I think they (online retailers) engage in fair competition...They don't have the overhead that a retailer does, so can offer lower prices. That isn't a crime but rather good business that reaches a different consumer. I'm an advocate of supporting locally owned independent business. I support my local bookstore rather than the big box Barnes & Noble....but when my local bookseller can't meet my needs, I do turn to Amazon or the big box. Boo Hiss...but they all fit a different niche in the marketplace and my local bookseller has adjusted to that competition and she is thriving in this community because she offers something the big box and or online sellers don't. She figured out who her client base was and takes care of their needs in ways that the big box and Amazon can't.

As usual, Rodney asked for fusers glue, and we digressed into the ethics of wholesale purchasers buying for others and what that can do to the retailer, and the definition of quantity :roll:

rodney
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WHAT IS WHOLESALE

Postby rodney » Tue May 20, 2003 2:39 pm

if you go to your local glass shop, which i did when i started this, and buy a plastic jug, which has a teeny tiny amount of stuff in the bottom, along with a marble, and you pay between $5 and $10 for that, and you just use it to make a project for your aunt, then i say, excellent, give that retailer and the manufacturer a big profit, why not,,,,,,,, but when you need big quanities of glue, regardless of whether you are buying anything else, then it is only logical to buy in what i consider to be quanity, i need 10 lbs of the stuff at the bottom of a $5-$10 retail item, which would probably come to $1000s of dollars when you weigh out 10 lbs,,,,and im not gonna pay retail for it,,,,,,,,im not the biggest guy out there, but i need 10lbs of glue, and i need it at a good price,,,,rodney

charlie
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Postby charlie » Tue May 20, 2003 2:40 pm

Geri Comstock wrote:Charlie -

How much is 10 pounds of glue? $50? $100? That's not quantity in terms of how wholesalers view it.

Geri


dunno. if it was hxtal glue, that would be about a bazillion dollars?

Geri Comstock
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Postby Geri Comstock » Tue May 20, 2003 3:18 pm

LOL. Yeah, for Hxtal it would be a bazillion dollars...and that's the point. Anyone who's spending a bazillion on hxtal is a wholesale customer.

Rodney, here's another suggestion. I'm not sure what kind of glue you're using...fuser's glue? I don't know what that is because I don't use glue unless I have to. Why not substitute something like Elmer's glue or crazy glue. They're pretty cheap. When I HAVE to glue something before firing I use Elmer's and it works just fine for me.

The other issue is that if you're using that much glue, then you must be using alot of glass. Are you buying that at wholesale prices? Why not buy the glue from whomever is selling you the glass at wholesale?


Geri

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Tue May 20, 2003 3:49 pm

One litre of Hotline pate de verre and fusers glue costs under $5.00 wholesale. 4 litres (roughly one gallon) would weigh around 10 pounds. A $20.00 sale is a very small one, especially for wholesale. It's far less than Ed Hoy's minimum order.

The definition of wholesale varies from place to place, but in general the wholesellers like to see you spend several thousand dollars a year, with greater discounts for greater amounts spent. Most people buying wholesale purchase $1000 or more each time they make a purchase -- ten pounds of glue is a nearly insignificant item in an order of that magnitude.

As Geri mentioned, if glue is the main thing you'd like to purchase inexpensively, try using a common household glue like Elmer's and mix it half and half with water. Or talk to your local stained glass shop and ask them if they have an account with Ed Hoy's (or any other wholeseller that can get your glue). If they do, tell them you'll pay double the wholesale price for the glue -- I'm sure they'll happily add your glue to their next order.

rodney
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how much is too much to pay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Postby rodney » Tue May 20, 2003 4:20 pm

i dont want to buy 10 gallons of glue,,,,,,what i need is the dry powder stuff in the bottom of the HOTLINE GLUE JUG ,,,i need 10 lbs of the powder, 10 lbs of powder would probably make dozens of gallons of glue,,,,,the quanity in the bottom of the HOTLINE JUG is small,,,,i didnt measure it, but its probably no more than 5 or 6 tablespoons,,,,,a few tablespoons of dried glue powder for $5 is too much for me to pay,,,oh well,,,,the seach continues

rodney

rodney
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elmers glue,,,,

Postby rodney » Tue May 20, 2003 4:31 pm

hey brad,,

you wrote: if glue is the main thing you'd like to purchase inexpensively, try using a common household glue like Elmer's and mix it half and half with water.

i think this is a good idea, but please fill me in,,,, if the elmers mixed with water is just as good as fusers glue, why would anybody use the fusers glue,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i was under the impression, for some reason, that the fusers glue was better because it left no residue, but if elmers is just as good then yes, why not,,,,,please tell me if there is anything wrong with the elmers that would effect my pate de verre, i really need a good quality glue, and a good price,,,,, but i dont want the final piece to be effected because i used the wrong glue,,,,,,its just that the idea of spending lots of money where i really dont need to is the reason im searching for a good supplier of powdered glue,,,oh, what about cmc and gum arabic

as always, thanks for all the hard work here on the board brad

out for now, and thanks
rodney

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Tue May 20, 2003 5:03 pm

You're right, Rodney, that 10 pounds of the POWDER in the Hotline Fuser's Glue would be a lot of powder. However, I doubt very much if Ed Hoy's would sell you the powder by itself -- it's a proprietary mixture, and they're not likely to give away all their secrets.

Regarding different glues, between my wife and I we have used a number of different products, including diluted (and undiluted) Elmers, Aleene's tacky glue, Klyr-fire, Hotline Fuser's Glue, Acrylic medium, Fuse Master Water Friendly medium, and more. Most work fine, especially if you vent the kiln up to 1000F and give the glue time to burn off. Some stick more than others, some are thicker and some are thinner. Only you can decide which works best for you and the way you work.

Test a few pieces and see if Elmer's (or any other choice) works for you. If it does, then consider buying a larger quantity.

Cynthia

Postby Cynthia » Tue May 20, 2003 5:27 pm

I just checked with Ed Hoy, and no, they don't sell the powder in any quantities other than is already prepackaged. The contents are simply cellulose salts with something nifty and proprietary to make it Hotline Fusers Glue. Cellulose is the sticky stuff though...so if you want cellulose, Klyr Fire might be the ticket, or if it's not viscous enough, let it evaporate a bit. Call your local geeky chem shop and see if they sell cellulose salts. If they do, mix with distilled water to the consistency you need and problem solved (if they carry it...if they don't they might direct you to someone who does).

I buy sulfamic acid (Wash Away) for a couple of bucks for a 1# tub at the chem shop. Goes a long way, just like borax...maybe you can find the cellulose salts too.

Carole Burton
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Postby Carole Burton » Tue May 20, 2003 5:46 pm

RODNEY. I LIKE THE ELMERS SCHOOL GLUE GEL. USE JUST ENOUGH TO TACK GLUE PIECES TOGETHER. USE IT STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOTTLE.
WORKS FOR ME.
SUPPLIERS EASY: ANY DRUG STORES OR AT THE MARTS. NO SHIPPING ETC. NO WHOLESALE.
HOPE THIS HELPS. CAROLE....S.C.

Bob Gent
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Postby Bob Gent » Thu May 22, 2003 8:36 am

I go to the local ceramics supply house and get a pound of "gum solution", which is basically CMC. Then I get a pint of alcohol and a gallon of distilled water. I get more than a gallon of the tacky stuff for less than ten bucks. I use it sparingly when it may show, like on dark colors, but it works well for me.


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