I have been experimenting with electroforming of copper on some fused plates. The plates are approximately 12 inches on a side. On one of these plates I have a put a green patina on the surface of the copper. I am looking for suggestions on how to stabilize the patina and reduce its potential to worn off during handling. Right now my leading choice is low gloss artist varnish over the patina and copper.
Tim
Electroforming of Copper on Plates
Moderators: Brad Walker, Tony Smith
Michael,
I have been experimenting around and at the crossroads as to if I use the wax method or a spray on coating. In the experimenting I have experienced the erosion of the patina with normal handling. The only thing the keeps me from using the wax is heating the glass. I have put so much time into the piece that I don’t want to risk cracking the glass from thermal expansion of the copper. The copper electro plating is up 3/16’s of an in thick in some places. I am thinking that spray on is the best option.
Tim
I have been experimenting around and at the crossroads as to if I use the wax method or a spray on coating. In the experimenting I have experienced the erosion of the patina with normal handling. The only thing the keeps me from using the wax is heating the glass. I have put so much time into the piece that I don’t want to risk cracking the glass from thermal expansion of the copper. The copper electro plating is up 3/16’s of an in thick in some places. I am thinking that spray on is the best option.
Tim
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John Kurman
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:38 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
- Contact:
Tim,
Sounds like your best option is the spray-on acrylic. Wax is, of course, an option, and you can safely apply the wax onto the glass and copper with only a mild heating (place the tiles in a warm pan of water, for example).
Wax must evertually be resealed. The standard for bronzes is once a year (and the old saying goes: you don't own a bronze, you own the priviledge of maintaining it).
Acrylic will eventually peel, but then, unless you really know your electrochemisty, or have had this done by a commercial plating company, so will your copper plate.
Also, this will never stop air - or water - from reaching your patina. Wax or lacquer or acrylic, air gets in. Oxygen is insidious, it combines with damned near everything, and water is, of course, the universal solvent. Ah, well, such is life on Corrosion World. (The only way I know how to stablize the patina is to encase it in permanent vaccum, or bury it on the moon...).
Sounds like your best option is the spray-on acrylic. Wax is, of course, an option, and you can safely apply the wax onto the glass and copper with only a mild heating (place the tiles in a warm pan of water, for example).
Wax must evertually be resealed. The standard for bronzes is once a year (and the old saying goes: you don't own a bronze, you own the priviledge of maintaining it).
Acrylic will eventually peel, but then, unless you really know your electrochemisty, or have had this done by a commercial plating company, so will your copper plate.
Also, this will never stop air - or water - from reaching your patina. Wax or lacquer or acrylic, air gets in. Oxygen is insidious, it combines with damned near everything, and water is, of course, the universal solvent. Ah, well, such is life on Corrosion World. (The only way I know how to stablize the patina is to encase it in permanent vaccum, or bury it on the moon...).
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John Kurman
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:38 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
- Contact:
Oh, and a quick aside and warning on anyone who is thinking of doing electoplating at home (not directed at you, Tim I notice from your profile your in engineering and no doubt know all the hazards and dangers involved).
The electroplating industry was the first industry that the EPA came down on and came down HARD. If you do not follow all the restrictions and requirements involved, you will be facing jail time, plus hefty fines. No slaps on the wrist, no plea-bargaining.
The pollution produced from these processes eventually ends up in your drinking water, and there is enough crap in it already without more home-brewed crap improperly disposed of.
Plus, the chemicals involved in this - even something fairly "benign" as copper sulfate and dilute sulfuric acid bath - are nasty and dangerous. If you like your eyes, lungs, and skin just as they are, don't do it.
If you really want to plate something, contact a commercial plating company. They've spent tens of thousands, if not millions of dollars, getting their act together. Do the planet a favor, and spend the bucks to get it done right.
The electroplating industry was the first industry that the EPA came down on and came down HARD. If you do not follow all the restrictions and requirements involved, you will be facing jail time, plus hefty fines. No slaps on the wrist, no plea-bargaining.
The pollution produced from these processes eventually ends up in your drinking water, and there is enough crap in it already without more home-brewed crap improperly disposed of.
Plus, the chemicals involved in this - even something fairly "benign" as copper sulfate and dilute sulfuric acid bath - are nasty and dangerous. If you like your eyes, lungs, and skin just as they are, don't do it.
If you really want to plate something, contact a commercial plating company. They've spent tens of thousands, if not millions of dollars, getting their act together. Do the planet a favor, and spend the bucks to get it done right.
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Mike Byers
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:57 pm
- Location: west central Indiana
- Contact:
I've had good success using Penetrol as a coating over copper patina and rusted steel (at least for interior use). I apply a couple of thin coats using a brush. It's a gloss finish, however. I know Keith Clayton uses electroplating on some of his glass, so maybe he'd have some good advice in this regard.
Re: Electroforming of Copper on Plates
varnish yellows a great deal when exposed to light. i've switched to using nitrocellulose lacquer instead, which doesn't.Tim Swann wrote:I have been experimenting with electroforming of copper on some fused plates. The plates are approximately 12 inches on a side. On one of these plates I have a put a green patina on the surface of the copper. I am looking for suggestions on how to stabilize the patina and reduce its potential to worn off during handling. Right now my leading choice is low gloss artist varnish over the patina and copper.
Tim