sandwiched photos in float glass

[hoknok]

I have been sandswiching laser copies of my photography between sheets of float glass with intersting results. I want to do this without the paper backing and wondered how others may have done so. I am thinking about using overhead transparencies as well as decal transfers.

The key for me is that the image must be placed in between the glass before the fire. Not afterwards. The image also must survuve the fire. I want that semi-melted look and the cracks in the photos that resulkts when fired.

My test cases show that some do survive while others get a burn spot in the middle. This black spot may be due to the paper burning in a reduction atmosphere of co or co2 (according to William Venable). Any suggestions.

Thanks

Mike

[frenchacidman]

The best results I got were by disconnecting or temporarly removing the heat fuser roller in my printer, or in the case of my copier, the quartz heater lamp. This allows the print to exit with the toner powder loose and unmelted into the paper. I place it toner side down onto the glass. Sand blast frosted glass works best. After positioning it I rub the back of the paper with an old clean white cotton sock moistened with acetone. This transfers the toner image chemically fusing it to the glass as I remove the paper.
Just enough acetone to moisten the paper, too much and it will saturate causing the toner to "wash'" and not be sharp. Its possible to get a 100%
reproduction of your art with practice. I did copies of charcoal renderings that were perfect in tone, right down to the tooth on the paper!!
Pat

[hoknok]

Thanks Pat, I have heard the same thing from others. So the toner still stays put on the paper even though it is not fused... I will have to try this. I have a HP LaserJet 5mp and will see about stopping the fusing part.
Thanks.

Hoknok

[Hugo Gavarini]

I have been sandswiching laser copies of my photography between sheets of float glass with intersting results. I want to do this without the paper backing and wondered how others may have done so. I am thinking about using overhead transparencies as well as decal transfers.

The key for me is that the image must be placed in between the glass before the fire. Not afterwards. The image also must survuve the fire. I want that semi-melted look and the cracks in the photos that resulkts when fired.

My test cases show that some do survive while others get a burn spot in the middle. This black spot may be due to the paper burning in a reduction atmosphere of co or co2 (according to William Venable). Any suggestions.

Thanks

Mike

Mike,

I am just researching on the matter, thanks to Vallace Venable generosity. So, this will be an incomplete and brief report.

First, TRASFER PAPER

I am trying thermal transfer, ironing back paper. Contact back paper worked fine. I have put the iron control in LINE or COTTON, the shiny printed surface of back paper down onto the glass, four fine cotton cloth over the paper then pressing with the hot iron during one minute (the cloth will get brown due to the temperature). Then removing immediatly the paper, otherwhise part of the Toner resin will stick back to the paper and your resolution will deteriorate.

This way the transfer was perfect, leaving no toner on the transfer paper.

Problems with transfer paper: almost all photocopy services rejected copying on my carefully cut-to-size back paper. They are afraid the paper would stick to the rollers. So I am now copying some overhead transparencies which sound promising.

Second TONER COMPOSITION

I could transfer a photocopy to the glass with excellent results and that is already a very good news. Furthermore, that image is very stable.

But when dealing with warmglass, you will need IRON in your image. The more the iron the better. Iron in Toner is BLACK magnetite Fe3O4 which oxidizes in the kiln to SEPIA Fe2O3. Wallace have already put this in his .PDF file.

Such magnetite works as developer, carrying plastic binders and pigments into the machine. Some machines uses a dual system to transfer images, retrieving all the iron prior to fusing the image onto the paper. I believe these machines are not of use for our purposes because no iron will remain in the printed image.

Other machines use a monocomponent toner, leaving the iron in the paper when fused. Furthermore, some monocomponent toners are iron free (like these of the color copiers). These are not of our interest.

The remaining iron-bearing toners will range from 9% to 55% of magnetite by weight. We will prefer the higher percentages.

I am going to carry some tests using Canon and Kyocera-Mita copiers, both monocomponent system bearing iron (according to my studies). How many iron?. Well see... . The lower the iron, the fainter the fired image.

One paragraph devoted to Hewlett Packard LaserJet printers. These printers have lowered resin and raised iron oxide content. According to MSDS, HP 4P and HP 5P black Toners have 45%-55% Iron Oxide. So these machines are almost ceramic printers!.

There are other special printers for bar-code printing on checks which Toner bears up to 60% magnetite, but you have to go to a bank to get a copy (LOL).

I have hitherto tried a single copy from a SHARP photocopier. Transferred OK but the image dissapeared with heat. I concluded SHARP uses the modern iron-free monocomponent Toner.

I will post my results later after firing my new samples. Thank you very much Wallace.

P.S.: A word on the matter of calcining paper or leaves between layers. I have found that a burn spot in the middle of the paper (or vegetal leaf) will show because glass layers seals before a complete combustion of the object preventing oxygen from entering, thus producing carbonization. To avoid this I am holding at 600°C (1112°F) for 10 minutes.

[hoknok]

Hugo,

A few questions,

First thanks for the info Frop0m Wallace. I have his PDF document and it is really helpful. And by the way, It was Wallace Venable not William as I has posted earlier that sent me the info on the burn out being CO and CO2.

I am assuming you had better results with the toner tranfer than the iron-on transfer... correct?

Also, what did you use to tranfer the unfused iron from the laser printer. Acetone? I thought about applying a water based glue to the glass and then transfering the iron toner onto the glass. But I am concerned about what the glue would due iun the burn.

I am a photogrpaher and want to transfer my large 12x 18 images to glass since I like the melted look the glass has after the fire.

P.S.: A word on the matter of calcining paper or leaves between layers. I have found that a burn spot in the middle of the paper (or vegetal leaf) will show because glass layers seals before a complete combustion of the object preventing oxygen from entering, thus producing carbonization. To avoid this I am holding at 600°C (1112°F) for 10 minutes.

I am currious as to how holding the temp at 600 oC keeps the paper from carbonizing. I still have to take the temp past this to get a good fuse with my sheet float glass. Do you mean that by holding it at the 600 oC I can keep the burn from taking place? If so, then great! *I also love the effect the paper has.

If I wanted a clean llok, I would simply apply the image to the glass after the fire. But its the fused look that has more of an artisitc attitude I desire.

Mike

[Hugo Gavarini]

Hi Mike,

I think I am confusing you a bit because it is not English my birth language.

Please, find below some answers which are inserted in your quoted message.

Hugo,

A few questions,

First thanks for the info Frop0m Wallace. I have his PDF document and it is really helpful. And by the way, It was Wallace Venable not William as I has posted earlier that sent me the info on the burn out being CO and CO2.

I am assuming you had better results with the toner tranfer than the iron-on transfer... correct?

---I an transferring photocopies and printed (Hewlett Packard 5P) images (made on CONTACT and label back paper) onto glass successfully. When transferred, I have a mirrored image on the glass surface, very clean and with the same definition as the original. The image is very stable, you would not erase it by rubbing or washing with water. Rubbing with alcohol will remove the Toner and of course Toluene will eliminate it also.


Also, what did you use to tranfer the unfused iron from the laser printer. Acetone? I thought about applying a water based glue to the glass and then transfering the iron toner onto the glass. But I am concerned about what the glue would due iun the burn.

---To achieve very good transfer results I am ironing the paper onto the glass, like the first attemp by Wallace. I neither use decal system nor chemical transfer. Only a household iron with the control in LINE or COTTON, very hot!. I believe this is the most effective and straightforward transfer system. (I did not tried decal transfer so I can't give an opinion on decals. Wallace did it with success.).


I am a photogrpaher and want to transfer my large 12x 18 images to glass since I like the melted look the glass has after the fire.

---So, for thermal transfer you might need a hot press because a household iron would not provide a hot full surface enough to achieve a complete transfer.

P.S.: A word on the matter of calcining paper or leaves between layers. I have found that a burn spot in the middle of the paper (or vegetal leaf) will show because glass layers seals before a complete combustion of the object preventing oxygen from entering, thus producing carbonization. To avoid this I am holding at 600°C (1112°F) for 10 minutes.

I am currious as to how holding the temp at 600 oC keeps the paper from carbonizing. I still have to take the temp past this to get a good fuse with my sheet float glass. Do you mean that by holding it at the 600 oC I can keep the burn from taking place? If so, then great! *I also love the effect the paper has.

---I assume you are laminating printed paper between two glass layers. When rising temperature in the kiln the paper will start to calcine leaving a faint white ash, a ghost image. This process seems to start on the edges of the paper progressing towards the center. But at the same time glass is getting hotter and the upper layer will start to slump. The first part to get in contact with the lower layer will probably be the edge which is flying supported by the paper thickness. So, the edge will be the first part touching and tack-fusing to the lower layer. Starting from that moment, oxygen will not be allowed to enter and calcining with oxygen deficit will burn carbon. That's why I hold for 10 minutes at 600°C (1112°F) because I am using Float glass and it will not slump at that temperature enough to seal the piece. I think that way I am allowing enough time to achieve a complete oxydizing calcination prior to go on rising temperature. I then ramp to 840°C (1544°F) to achieve a good fuse holding during 20 minutes.


If I wanted a clean llok, I would simply apply the image to the glass after the fire. But its the fused look that has more of an artisitc attitude I desire.

---I think that only a high IRON (Magnetite) monocomponent Toner will yield a good sepia image after firing. Hewlett Packard 4P and 5P would be within this range. I am researching on different options but can't say right now because experiments are in course.

Mike