glass cuttimg medium - WarmGlass.com

glass cuttimg medium

This is the main board for discussing general techniques, tools, and processes for fusing, slumping, and related kiln-forming activities.

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pookie
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glass cuttimg medium

Postby pookie » Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:45 pm

: :? been using kerosene & transmission oil.I find it to greasy.would like to find a different medium. any suggestions would be appreciated.

skin_mechanic
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Postby skin_mechanic » Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:53 pm

Whoa, sounds like something I'd try :) I've been using Inland Glass Cutter oil, it's light-bodied, and rinses off with warm water, of course that's true of most cutting oils, but it's the brand that works for me, YMMV :)

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:56 pm

Mineral spirits.

Inexpensive and burns off in the kiln.

Brock
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Postby Brock » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:00 pm

Nothing. Really cheap, and easy to clean up. Brock
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Brad Walker
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Postby Brad Walker » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:09 pm

Brock wrote:Nothing. Really cheap, and easy to clean up.


I used to use nothing, but after the first few years I found I had to occasionally use a little mineral oil to get the wheel going again.

Now I just put some mineral oil in the Toyo and forget about it. It's not as cheap as nothing (probably costs around $3 a decade for the oil), and it's not quite as easy to clean (I have to wait a few seconds for the oil to evaporate), but I do think it makes the cutting wheel last a bit longer.

One other thing: Circles definitely cut easier for me with a little mineral oil than they do with nothing.

Brock
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Postby Brock » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:13 pm

Brad Walker wrote:
Brock wrote:Nothing. Really cheap, and easy to clean up.


I used to use nothing, but after the first few years I found I had to occasionally use a little mineral oil to get the wheel going again.

Now I just put some mineral oil in the Toyo and forget about it. It's not as cheap as nothing (probably costs around $3 a decade for the oil), and it's not quite as easy to clean (I have to wait a few seconds for the oil to evaporate), but I do think it makes the cutting wheel last a bit longer.

One other thing: Circles definitely cut easier for me with a little mineral oil than they do with nothing.


You mean your Toyo reservoir thingy actually works? Hang onto that cutter!
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Stuart Clayman
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Postby Stuart Clayman » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:25 pm

Brock....
I subscribe to your nothing formula... but even with blessing, and cusing afterwards I have trouble with BE white. Will mineral oil help with the white?

Stuart

skin_mechanic
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Postby skin_mechanic » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:28 pm

I paid good money for one of those pistol grip Toyo cutters, a coupla weeks later I found a knock off on an obscure website for under $5.00, man did I get screwed :( and the kicker is, I don't use it. I have a cheap cutter w/reservoir that I bought several years ago(for stained glass). I like the heft and balance of it better. Anywho, I've read in several diffeerent books that indicate using a lubricant will prolong the cutting wheel's edge... like I know what I'm talking about :lol:

Brock
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Postby Brock » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:37 pm

Stuart Clayman wrote:Brock....
I subscribe to your nothing formula... but even with blessing, and cusing afterwards I have trouble with BE white. Will mineral oil help with the white?

Stuart


I don't know, it might. Graham had some theory about the oil molecules being smaller than . . . something. I'm gonna look it up.

I do think oil, or some fluid is beneficial when working with float. Don't know why.
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

raynsandy
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Postby raynsandy » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:40 pm

Dry all the way.
The pistol grip will drain out if you dont keep the wheel propped up.
When ours ran dry, I never refilled it.

Ray

Brock
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Postby Brock » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:44 pm

Brock wrote:
Stuart Clayman wrote:Brock....
I subscribe to your nothing formula... but even with blessing, and cusing afterwards I have trouble with BE white. Will mineral oil help with the white?

Stuart


I don't know, it might. Graham had some theory about the oil molecules being smaller than . . . something. I'm gonna look it up.

I do think oil, or some fluid is beneficial when working with float. Don't know why.


Okay, it's in his Glass Myths section, and reads:

5. Glasscutting is easier with a specific fluid (usually petroleum based) applied to the glass

This one is mostly true: but it is not so much the type of fluid as it's molecular size. Many liquids have smaller molecules than glass, including water. Incidentally, in the very long term, moisture is glass' worst enemy
- Graham Stone FSFG - TKC

So . . . perhaps it works? Perhaps the oil increases the life of a cutter head? Who knows?
Last edited by Brock on Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

skin_mechanic
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Postby skin_mechanic » Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:56 pm

So is it possible that a conspiracy has been developed among glass cutter manufacturers and glass cutter oil manufacturers to milk the unsuspecting public(me) outta cash. Hmmmmm, I wouldn't feel so bad about this if my cutter had come with a complementary bag of Depends... at least the filler plugs don't leak.

Bert Weiss
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Postby Bert Weiss » Sun Mar 28, 2004 12:34 am

Brad Walker wrote:Mineral spirits.

Inexpensive and burns off in the kiln.


Mineral spirits evaporate too fast for me. Kerosene cleans off with ammonia free glass cleaner. Cheap, effective, and easy to clean, three good traits.
Bert

Bert Weiss Art Glass*
http://www.customartglass.com
Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware
Architectural Commissions

Tim Swann
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Postby Tim Swann » Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:30 am

I run my cutters dry most of the time. If I need to make exact cuts I fill the cutter with distilled water. I had to modify the felt a little bit to get the right flow of water, but seem to work just fine. On large circles for some opaque glass I spray the surface with distilled water to make cutting easier.

Tim

Lauri Levanto
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Postby Lauri Levanto » Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:30 am

As a newbie, it feel terrible to challence
an authority:


Okay, it's in his Glass Myths section, and reads:

5. Glasscutting is easier with a specific fluid (usually petroleum based) applied to the glass

This one is mostly true: but it is not so much the type of fluid as it's molecular size. Many liquids have smaller molecules than glass,
including water. Incidentally, in the very long term, moisture is glass' worst enemy
- Graham Stone FSFG - TKC

My understanding is that glass cutting is possible
because of the surface tension of the glass.
When it is broken from one side , it tends to pull
the glass apart. That is why you bend away from the score.

Physically water and oil behave differently. Water has very low surfa ce tension on clean glass, the whole surface is wetted. On oiled glass the water beads off.

My GUESS (!) is that oil mainteins the surface tension in the score, water tends to reduce it. The experience at my local
glass firm is that it is more difficult to cut replacement
window panes on a rainy day.

Myth or not?

-lauri

Dani
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Postby Dani » Sun Mar 28, 2004 12:56 pm

An experienced glass cutter can break a dry score easily enough especially if it's a straight cut. But, if you're a newbie, give yourself a (clean) break and use cutting oil. (I just use lamp oil.) Especially if you're making curved cuts or using difficult glass. They'll break more easily, whatever the science behind the phenomenon. It's been my experience that the glass gods like a little lubrication..... :wink:

Judith Andre
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Location: Lincoln, NE

Postby Judith Andre » Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:25 pm

I.too, dry cut. My reasoning is that it makes cleaning the glass before firing much easier.

Judith
Judith

Bert Weiss
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Postby Bert Weiss » Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:09 pm

When I made copper foiled stained glass windows, I always cut dry and had a successful experience once I had my first Toyo cutter.

Once I switched to float glass I quickly learned that without kerosene cuts OFTEN fail. You can see the white little shards of glass popping out of the score. After that happens success is never predictable. This is true of straight or curved cuts. Being an essentially lazy guy, I sometimes skip the kero step. BAM that gets expensive fast.

Like many of us, My Toyo cutters don't hold kero well, so my routine is to paint the glass with kero before scoring. Clean glass, painted with kerosene, scored right, almost always breaks where you want it. Screw up on any of those factors and the likelyhood for runoff is great.

I don't have any experience with Toyo knockoffs, but I'm a skeptic there. I swear by my Toyo Custom Grip tap wheel cutter (134º angle) for cutting float glass from 3/16" uo to 1/2" thick. The tap wheels don't last as long as the old wheels, but they work extrodinarily well.

When I made copper foiled windows I really wanted to skip the step of cleaning the glass before foiling, which avoiding cutting oil allowed me to do. For kiln work, cleaning the glass is essential anyway so the kerosene is not a problem at all. It comes off with the normal wiping with ammonia free glass cleaner. Not using it would not make cleaning any easier.

You can choose to ignore the advice that I give here, but it will cost you big bucks when you do.
Bert



Bert Weiss Art Glass*

http://www.customartglass.com

Furniture Lighting Sculpture Tableware

Architectural Commissions

Brock
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Location: Vancouver, B.C.

Postby Brock » Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:25 pm

You can choose to ignore the advice that I give here, but it will cost you big bucks when you do.

Wooo! The voice of doom!

It's not gonna cost me a cent, I can cut glass, and I'm not hacking up big sheets.

But what the hell, scare 'm if you can. Brock
My memory is so good, I can't remember the last time I forgot something . . .

Dennis Brady
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Postby Dennis Brady » Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:36 pm

Toyo didn't invent the idea of oiling cutter heads. It's a technique employed by glaziers for at least a century. Not only does it help the cutting wheel run smoother (and thus increase the likelihood of a consistent score) the strip of oil left in the score increases the likelihood of a dependable break. The residual oil provides a small hydraulic effect that transfers pressure along the score. The more complex the score, the more advantageous this is. Especially if it's too complex to break out other than by tapping. For straight lines and simple uniform curves it probably doesn't matter.

Before Toyo produced a cutter that wicked the oil onto the head, many glaziers dipped their cutters into oil before scoring. Often for cutting thick glass, a glazier will pour or wipe oil into the score to help ensure it breaks accurately.

If using oil is a myth, it's one that sure works well.
DeBrady Glass Ltd http://www.debrady.com
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