UGH! I HATE my wireless network!

[Cindy next door]

I am using NETGEAR for my wireless network in my shop. It is horrible. Besides being painfully slow, when my kiln is running the relay switching interferes with it and I can't use the internet!

We have cable internet to the house and that works just fine. Anyone have a wireless internet that works?

Help!
Cindy next door

[Carol]

Why not just have the cable company run a line to your shop? Even if you pay a monthly fee for having an extra concection it should be cheaper than having a wireless carrier too.

[Cindy next door]

I originally asked my husband to run a cable through the attic and into the shop but we decided to move with the times and try wireless. I know so many people are using it. I'm not really sure if the problem is wireless or the manufacturer.

If I can't get this resolved, that is certainly what I have to do, it is way too frustrating!

Cindy next door

[Brad Walker]

We have cable internet to the house and that works just fine. Anyone have a wireless internet that works?

Yes, I have a wireless network in my house that works fine. We're set up for up to four people to be online at the same time. There's no noticeable decline in performance. I have a DSL connection that comes into the main PC on the phone line, then use a wireless setup to reach the other three PCs. (Two of which are laptops that roam all over the place.)

The key is the distance from the host. Different types of hardware and software have different distance capabilities. If you're having problems with your NETGEAR setup, it may be related to the distance from the host. You ought to be able to check signal strength from the PCs to see if that's an issue (I bet it is!).

You have several possibilities, including running a second cable line, checking out alternative hardware and software (could be NETGEAR, could be another brand), and running a wired connection to your studio from the host (cheaper than a second cable line, I bet). The technology in this area has improved significantly over the past few years, so if your setup is old, there are probably better ones on the market.

[Cindy next door]

Right now I am the only one connected to the wireless newtwork, although I'd like to connect more if we got it to work right.

My husband talked to Netgear's support team. My distance isn't too bad, closer than the other side of the house. I do have the garage door in the way, which does seem to make a difference in the speed. They said there really shouldn't be a problem.

My computer isn't new, but it's powerful. The wireless internet is only a few months old (it's why I haven't been posting so much). We've been trying to pinpoint the problem.

It seems like there are a lot of things that will interfere with my connection. So my biggest headach is that I never know if I can even get mail when I go to my computer.

I've found that a wireless phone will interfere with it. And determined yesterday that my kiln interferes with it. That's power not wireless. So I'm wondering what that has to do with it. Right now I can't even access the internet from that computer since I'm annealing.

What brand do you use?

Cindy next door

[Brad Walker]

The brand I use for the home base (where the signal comes from) is called Actiontec http://www.actiontec.com/ The reason I use it is that it was the one that my phone company said worked best with their equipment (I'm DSL, remember). It's 802.11b, which is fairly standard but no longer state-of-the-art. We use both laptop cards and external units that plug into the USB port. For the USB port, I use another brand (don't remember what), it was just something I bought cheap at Circuit City.

The power of the computer shouldn't be a factor, it's more the power of the signal that's getting sent out. In my case, the signal routinely travels through two or three walls and one floor, and we still get acceptable signal strength. The receiving PCs should have the ability to tell you if the signal strength is good or poor -- sometimes moving things just a few inches makes a big difference. If the strength is poor, it will be slow and may just drop out or lose connection (sounds like that's what's happening to you). You want to check the actual strength, not rely on the company technician on the phone.

Wireless phones do not seem to interfere with my setup -- we have four or five in the same area, and can easily talk on the phone while we're online. I don't often have the computer next to my kilns, but doubt if that would be a problem either.

Again, sounds to me like your signal strength is very low. Do you have the ability to check that?

[Cindy next door]

I think my husband has checked it before and it was good. He showed me how to put a little icon up so I can see the strength in color - green good, yellow poor, red bad. Right now if I used that computer and tried to use the internet. I can watch it change colors in unison with the relay clicking of the kiln. And the wireless phone definitely interferes. Since you don't have those problems, I seriously suspect the manufacturer.

It confuses my husband because the kiln operating shouldn't matter.

Cindy next door

[Brad Walker]

I don't see how the kiln would impact it, either, but then I'm no expert. I can understand the phone, but of course if your network is properly shielded that shouldn't be a problem either.

Sorry I couldn't offer any easy solution.

[Cindy next door]

You did Brad. Your brand works with the phones. Thanks for the link. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Cindy

[Dani]

Right now I can't even access the internet from that computer since I'm annealing.

Cindy next door

Wow, I think you've just given me a great tip on how to do more annealing..... and less computering. Don't tell my husband! I may have to build up to this gradually!

[Phil Hoppes]

Hi Cindy,

Even though I can't stand the company as they laid me and my staff off, seing as I worked at Intersil, who makes most of the wireless networking chips, I know a thing or two about wireless networks.

First a few things to try.

1) If it is not too difficult to accomplish, your access point should be located as physically high as possible. I don't care what the instructions say, at Intersil where we built and tested the chips we mounted all of our access point on a little shelf close to the ceiling.

2) If the back of your PC in your garage is surrounded by lots of metal things that could
also degrade your signal.

Your kiln problem could be from a number of sources. My first guess is that the relay's kicking in are spiking the AC power line with noise that is getting into your PC. A surge protector will NOT fix this. In fact most surge protectors sold are a sham and are little more than AC plug expanders. If this could be proven to be the cause, the solution would be to use a line conditioner. Quite expensive and a hard line to your garage would be easier. The other reason is that the relay's are generating RF (Radio Frequency) noise. Possible, but not likely as they are not switching fast enough. Possibly the design of your controller board might be the source too, but again I think this is a rather low probablility.

This is rather interesting news as I have a DSL line at our place up north where my studio is and I'm currently running a wireless network (not in the studio) and for the moment it works fine. As a backup I made provisions to run a hard like to my studio.....looks like I may need it!!!

I'll be in town on the weekend of the 20th. I'm planning on picking up my glass from Jackie at that time and I'll take a look at your setup and see if I can figure things out. Sorry I can't be there sooner to help. Give me a call if you want, I'll send you my phone on a private email.

Cheers,

Phil

[Cindy next door]

Wow Brad, you're good!

My husband - John - went and got the thing you posted and got it installed. It is amazing. It's like working on my other computers in the house. Woo Hoo!

The only other thing the support guy mentioned is that glass can cause interference. We were going to try up high, so it's good you said that was good Phil.

I sure wish I would have complained earlier!

Thanks Brad!

Cindy next door

[Cindy next door]

Thanks for your input Phil. John thought it was the noise from the kiln. It's off right now 150, waiting for the steel to cool. It'll be interesting to see if there is a difference now. I can just tell the difference in typing!

Hopefully this will be the end of my misery. Lunch on the 20th?

Cindy

[Cindy next door]

Well, it couldn't all be good.

My relay switching is still having an effect. Not as bad as before but it slows everything down.

The kiln is not between the computer and the house. Can I put something between the kiln and the computer so the relay switch doesn't affect it? A steel plate, or would that stuff travel around it.

Better get my posting in before morning and annealling

Cindy next door

[Terri Johanson]

My D-Link Wireless Network works flawlessly. You can get the router and 1 card at Costco for about $129....easy install and great technical support should you need it.

Terri

[Ron Coleman]

Well, it couldn't all be good.

My relay switching is still having an effect. Not as bad as before but it slows everything down.

The kiln is not between the computer and the house. Can I put something between the kiln and the computer so the relay switch doesn't affect it? A steel plate, or would that stuff travel around it.

Better get my posting in before morning and annealling

Cindy next door

Just curious if the problem you have with the kiln relay is only when the relay turns on and off or is it all the time the kiln is on?

When I first setup my kiln controller (homebuilt) I had a problem with the mercury relay causing the controller to reset when the relay switched. Relays can cause some nasty spikes in the electric lines which do bad things to electronic goodies. I solved the problem by adding an "rc filter" on the relay coil. Sometimes the relay coil causes problems and sometimes it's the relay contacts causing the problem. This device can be added across relay contacts too.

What I used was a homemade version of the "Paktron" gizmo shown on this link. Click on the blue thing at the top of the page.

http://www.paktron.com/

All the device is is a capacitor and resistor wired in series and then wired across the relay coil. I got all the stuff at Radioshack and made my own based on the values listed on the webpage. You may be able find the Paktron at a place that sells industrial electrical supplies.

Ron

[Phil Hoppes]

Cindy,

I think the noise is in your AC line. The circuits in a radio are VERY sensitive to noise. No need to get into the techy details but the 1's and 0's in a PC can be affected by noise but in general they are not bothered unless the level is quite high. This is why your PC is still working even though your network connection is hosed. What is happening is your radio in your wireless network card is going bonkers every time the relay hits and it has to reaquire the access port evertime it looses it. This takes time and you see it in the slow/lost connection.

The person who said glass will affect your wireless connection is an idiot. Glass has NO affect on a wireless connection. Metal or any material that conducts electricy has a large affect on a wireless connection and can degrade the signal significantly.

The filter that Ron mention sounds like a good idea, again, I can help with that as I'm guessing it's not something you are familiar with.

Phil

PS - Lunch sounds good, I'll let you and Jackie know what my schedule looks like. Matt & I are making the bottoms to the kiln that weekend. It's starting to take shape!!!!

[Cindy next door]

Do you have any problems when your kiln in running?



I've now put the adapter up high ( 4' above the kiln) and put two sheets of gavl. steel and 3/8" glass between the kiln and adapter and still have a poor signal.

[Cindy next door]

Well the verdit is in, we're switching to the cable.

Apparently all the steel shelving and stuff I have around causes a sporadic problem. And the kiln causes a continual problem.

So, it seems the wireless can work fine, but it's my situation here in the shop that makes it a problem.

[charlie]

Well, it couldn't all be good.

My relay switching is still having an effect. Not as bad as before but it slows everything down.

The kiln is not between the computer and the house. Can I put something between the kiln and the computer so the relay switch doesn't affect it? A steel plate, or would that stuff travel around it.

Better get my posting in before morning and annealling

Cindy next door

relays are arcs, and are really dirty rf sources. that'll probably cause resyncing and packet dropping, which causes your hardware to have to work a lot harder retransmitting packets. your phones are probably near the same signal wavelength. you could change them to a different type (i think the new 2.6 ghz ones have a long range and probably won't interfere). you'll also find that your microwave may also affect transmissions, as they're near the new phones frequency too. i also have heard that things positioned between your transmitter and receiver can affect this, like your refrigerator or other large pieces of metal can throw a radio shadow. we have problems in our computer room because of air handlers and the metal studs in the interior walls.

the only way to stop this would be to use faraday cages. signals go around plates to some degree. a cage for your kiln would be a pain to make.

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae176.cfm