Returns

Geri Comstock · Post by **Geri Comstock** » Thu May 22, 2003 12:52 pm

I've been in the glass business since 1992. For the first time, I've come across a customer who wants to return something they purchased from me at a show last weeked. There is no problem with the work. He said there was (even though there isn't) and so I offered to exchange it, but he refused the offer.

In truth, from what I can tell he seems to have a case of buyer's remorse...he bought it while he'd been drinking and now regrets the purchase.

Anyway, I had to pay the promoter of the show a 10% commission on all sales made at this show. Should I just eat the 10% or ask the customer to reimburse me for it? If there was a problem with the work, I'd eat it, of course. But in a case like this, what would you do?

Thanks for any insight.

Geri

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Thu May 22, 2003 12:57 pm

restocking fee.

some electronics stores will charge 15% to do a takeback if nothing's wrong with it. seems they do this with large screen tv's right around super bowl time, for some odd reason. home depot did it for generators just after y2k hit, for another odd reason.

Dani · Post by **Dani** » Thu May 22, 2003 1:01 pm

I offer a money-back no questions asked return policy on all work. Period. The truth is, returns don't happen enough to make an issue of it, no matter what the circumstances. I've never had this policy abused. (I've also never gotten a bad check from anyone. Go figure.) The pay-off in customer goodwill is amazing, and I don't have to tie myself into emotional knots figuring out what to do. The customer is king.

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Thu May 22, 2003 1:12 pm

I guess I would allow the return minus the 10% you are out of pocket, especially since you know you can resell it (as long as it's in the condition it was when you sold it to him). Then I would start to work out a friendly statement to print on your sales slips or as a card to include with sales what your return/exchange policy is so you have some solid ground to stand on in the future.

I hate signs that say NO RETURNS. They tend to send me running the other way just like signs that say YOU BREAK YOU BUY. But there are pleasant ways to state your policies without sounding punative. I saw one recently that was sitting next to a piece of work that said "Please feel free to handle this piece, and you may handle other pieces with assistance." It kept people out of trouble but still gave them the opportunity to touch.

Maybe you could write a policy that states you will "glady make exchanges on merchandise of equal value within 30 days of purchase" or the like. It expresses that you are accomodating your clients, but it protects you from willy nilly returns. Hopefully, since this has never happened before, it won't happen again.

Just a thought

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » Thu May 22, 2003 2:35 pm

It's true, you can tie yourself in knots with legal stuff or just do them a favour and exchange for a similar value item with no quibble. But pay back the cash doesn't work -nor does 'I was already drunk at the time'. If they were able pay and walk off with it he knew what was going on!

Having been burned once myself (it only happens once!) I put together a terms of trading on the website. Amazing how rare a thing that is -even with big fish. Anyhow, you are free to take a look and use it however you want if it will help you.

Took a while to put together and I think I got most things covered and I don't want any commendation for it but maybe next time you pass an ex-servicemans' collection box you put some change in it, okay!

Here ya go...

http://www.artemisglass.co.uk/artemis/terms.html

Oh, and here's a firm but polite poem you can have too;

It's nice to touch, it's nice to hold,
but if it gets broken, consider it sold!

Always raises a smile but best to get things straight so they know what happens if it gets broke!

just Paul

Anea · Post by **Anea** » Thu May 22, 2003 3:53 pm

Your sign is very similar to the one I have on my table at market.

Mine says:

Nice to look at nice to hold but if your break it please condsider it sold.

I always get great comments about it from customers ... they appreciate it and think it is well put.

Aimee
aka Anea

Geri Comstock · Post by **Geri Comstock** » Thu May 22, 2003 5:08 pm

Thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I just realized I left out something important. LOL.

This guy charged his purchase to his credit card. If I didn't allow him to return it, my understanding is that all he has to do is dispute the charge with the credit card company and I won't get paid. In addition, some credit card companies charge a fee as high as $25 to the merchant whenever a customer disputes a charge, whether or not the charge was made correctly.

It seems to me like I have to choice but to take it back with no restocking fee to pay for the commission I paid.

Anyone have a different experience with this?

Thanks -

Geri

P.S. Paul, thanks for the pointer to the info on your site. I'll check it out later...I'm off to an appointment right now.

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Thu May 22, 2003 5:12 pm

Geri Comstock wrote:Thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I just realized I left out something important. LOL.

This guy charged his purchase to his credit card. If I didn't allow him to return it, my understanding is that all he has to do is dispute the charge with the credit card company and I won't get paid.

the c.c. company investigates and places a hold on the money. he still has to prove that a: he sent it back, b: that it was delivered to you, and c: that it was accepted by you. if he can't prove that then they'll let the sale go through. it may take a while though. it might be easier, and cheaper, to just swallow the fees, or see if you can charge him a restocking fee. that's acceptable to the c.c. company too.

Barbara Cashman · Post by **Barbara Cashman** » Thu May 22, 2003 6:25 pm

Charlie's got it right. Just because the item was charged doesn't mean the credit card company won't pay. If you accepted the item back, you've accepted responsibility for the return. Most companies have a Return Authorization Code that must be submitted with the return or it will not be accepted. In my business, I have a standard 20% restocking fee. Custom orders are non-refundable, under any circunstances. Sometimes you just gotta stand your ground. On a personal note, Geri, please do not be suckered into the lack of worth for your item or yourself by a return request. It's not personal. It's business and just state your business policies accordingly with any purchase. Enclose a tag/card with your "Thank you for your purchase", etc. along with your policy for any returns, if you wish. Given enough time in this industry, you will always face this challenge.

- Barbara

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Thu May 22, 2003 7:00 pm

Geri Comstock wrote:This guy charged his purchase to his credit card. If I didn't allow him to return it, my understanding is that all he has to do is dispute the charge with the credit card company and I won't get paid. In addition, some credit card companies charge a fee as high as $25 to the merchant whenever a customer disputes a charge, whether or not the charge was made correctly.

It seems to me like I have to choice but to take it back with no restocking fee to pay for the commission I paid.

Anyone have a different experience with this?

I guess different merchant services handle diputes in different ways, but mine sent me a notice (only happened once, but I expect it's their standard) outlining the dispute. I had 30 days to respond with my information. In my case the dispute was that the purchaser didn't remember making the purchase, so thought it was a mistaken charge (I would think someone would remember spending that kind of money

and my work isn't subtle or easy to ignore

).

I sent the bank a copy of the charge slip and that was that. Different than your situation, but there wasn't a fee associated with the dispute...For credit card returns, I submit a credit to merchant services and that's that as well. I am off the hook for the %fee of that sale as well. I think you ought to check with your bank about how they handle disputes and in your particular case, how they handle a dispute because the client wants to return the merchandise.

I have to echo what Dani said earlier though. Perhaps it would be simpler, less stressful and create less ill will if you just accept the return, and eat the 10% as an unfortunate cost. Then from now on, have an established and stated return policy for your protection.

At the last show I did, one of my pieces was knocked over and broken by a client who was actually making a purchase at the time. She sat down as I was wrapping up the piece, she bumped the display and over it went. She felt awful, so did I but I didn't let if phase me or show that it was a problem.

She insisted on paying for the broken piece as well. I declined and offered that if she wanted to, she could pick out an intact piece she liked that was of equal value in it's stead. She just wanted to pay and get out of there. She was embarassed, so I took her cue and asked that she pay wholesale only and we'd both be comfortable with that. She accepted that condition. I recycled the broken work into a new piece and sent it to her of my own accord. I heard from her immediately about how pleased she was with the new piece. I titled it "The Phoenix" and the imagery and colors reference a phoenix somewhat. She asked for some images of other work and it looks promising that she will make another purchase and hopefully I've established a relationship and she will be a repeat customer.

Sometimes good things come out of biting the bullet, or being gracious even when you want to cry or spit or curse. Then offer up a creative solution that might turn something difficult into a win win...Just a thought.

Check with your merchant services provider to see what their policies are. That should help you make your decisions about how to handle this situation.

Best of luck.

Jo Holt · Post by **Jo Holt** » Thu May 22, 2003 7:12 pm

Geri Comstock wrote:Thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I just realized I left out something important. LOL.

This guy charged his purchase to his credit card......
It seems to me like I have to choice but to take it back with no restocking fee to pay for the commission I paid.

.

I had a nasty experience with a charge; when I entered the amount on the telephone call-in, it added a 0

This was all new to me and instead of using the proper code to correct it I used the credit code - it added another 0

I had to call my bank to get it straightened out - never got a call from the customer so it must not have affected her. BUT I found out they charged me 5% for the credit as well as 5% for the initial charge. So IMHO Barbara's 20% is more than fair on a credit card charge return.

Jo

Dani · Post by **Dani** » Fri May 23, 2003 12:15 am

And my breakage policy is much the same as Cynthia's.... stuff happens and it's part of my business expense to eat the cost. Graciousness under normal circumstances seems to be good customer service policy. On the other hand, if someone had wild, uncontrolled children who were asked to handle them, didn't, and something broke.... I think I might just double my prices to drive the point home! Don't you think that's reasonable?

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Fri May 23, 2003 12:48 am

Dani wrote:... if someone had wild, uncontrolled children who were asked to handle them, didn't, and something broke.... I think I might just double my prices to drive the point home! Don't you think that's reasonable?

No. I don't think that's reasonable. I think there should be some kind of collar or something that gives them a shock when they ignore their children. :badgrin:

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Fri May 23, 2003 4:54 am

Geri Comstock wrote:I've been in the glass business since 1992. For the first time, I've come across a customer who wants to return something they purchased from me at a show last weeked. There is no problem with the work. He said there was (even though there isn't) and so I offered to exchange it, but he refused the offer.

In truth, from what I can tell he seems to have a case of buyer's remorse...he bought it while he'd been drinking and now regrets the purchase.

Anyway, I had to pay the promoter of the show a 10% commission on all sales made at this show. Should I just eat the 10% or ask the customer to reimburse me for it? If there was a problem with the work, I'd eat it, of course. But in a case like this, what would you do?

Thanks for any insight.

Geri

OK

I got a better story

A coustomer returned a pebble as it had got a black stripe appearing within it after purchace

I just said I was sorry n exchanged it

rosanna gusler · Post by **rosanna gusler** » Fri May 23, 2003 7:46 am

shock collars for parents, too absolutly perfect!!!! rosanna

Brian and Jenny Blanthorn · Fri May 23, 2003 9:43 am

Geri Comstock wrote:I've been in the glass business since 1992. For the first time, I've come across a customer who wants to return something they purchased from me at a show last weeked. There is no problem with the work. He said there was (even though there isn't) and so I offered to exchange it, but he refused the offer.

In truth, from what I can tell he seems to have a case of buyer's remorse...he bought it while he'd been drinking and now regrets the purchase.

Anyway, I had to pay the promoter of the show a 10% commission on all sales made at this show. Should I just eat the 10% or ask the customer to reimburse me for it? If there was a problem with the work, I'd eat it, of course. But in a case like this, what would you do?

Thanks for any insight.

Geri

My view is return the $$$

Minus your costs

But

Every time he is drunk he will regret it

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:06 pm

Geri- I'd give him back his money in full just to be done with it. A letter to the promoter wouldn't hurt but don't hold your breath.
Just when you thought you'd seen/done it all....
Marty
ps. wanna duke it out again at WGWE2? Brad will give us a forum.

Geri Comstock · Post by **Geri Comstock** » Fri May 23, 2003 10:19 pm

Hey Marty -

Sure let's duke it out again, only this time you'd better let me talk...

Geri

Colin & Helen · Post by **Colin & Helen** » Sat May 24, 2003 7:32 am

Geri Comstock wrote:I've been in the glass business since 1992. For the first time, I've come across a customer who wants to return something they purchased from me at a show last weeked. There is no problem with the work. He said there was (even though there isn't) and so I offered to exchange it, but he refused the offer.

In truth, from what I can tell he seems to have a case of buyer's remorse...he bought it while he'd been drinking and now regrets the purchase.

Anyway, I had to pay the promoter of the show a 10% commission on all sales made at this show. Should I just eat the 10% or ask the customer to reimburse me for it? If there was a problem with the work, I'd eat it, of course. But in a case like this, what would you do?

Thanks for any insight.

Geri

Geri. Return sales are all somewhat of a problem ..when Helen and my self run our photographic lab..our policy was keep the bastards happy the commercial side was never a problem but we also did the odd wedding ..reprints and rejects were not uncommon......be it wrong size ...colour.. the client had just had a change of mind.........So if any work was returned and if we were getting the runaround .We would rip up the prints in front of the bugger ( the normal reaction was don't do that can I have them for free.....our answer was NO)..then pay the refund ....and get on with what we do.......so my answer after that trip down memory lane..... is....refund and write off the 10%.....in just a few weeks it will all be forgotten.....Colin

Geri Comstock · Post by **Geri Comstock** » Mon May 26, 2003 1:14 pm

For any of you who is interested, here's how the whole return situation worked out.

Even though this customer lives about 10 miles from me, he conducted the entire return conversation via email. After he told me he wouldn't exchange the supposedly problematic piece and wanted a refund instead for everything he bought from me, I told him that, even though my credit card merchant account states that I don't accept returns, exchanges only, I would accept a return under the following conditions:

1. He return the piece over the weekend at a time and place that was convenient for me (I don't allow clients to come to my home...ever), which happened to be in front of a bookstore I needed to go

2. The pieces be in the same condition they were in when they left my booth

3. He pay the 10% commission in cash when he made the return

I expected him to object to the third condition, but included it as a bargaining chip in case he objected to any of the other conditions.
It turned out he accepted the entire set of conditions.

I now have my pieces back and am not out of pocket the commission fee.

What was amusing about the actual return is that I brought my husband with me in case he was difficult about it in person. He brought a female companion with him. It was like we were having a duel and we both brought our seconds with us. I had to laugh at this after we were out of earshot.

I've learned a lesson from this, which is to have my return policy printed on my receipts in the future. When, as was the case with this show, I am required to use the promoter's receipts, I will either stamp or write the return policy on the receipt.

Thanks for your insights, folks. I love this board!!

Geri

WarmGlass.com

Returns

Returns

Ooops!

Re: Ooops!

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Here's how it worked out