Circle-cutting miracle?

PDXBarbara · Post by **PDXBarbara** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:25 pm

One of my studio-mates, Mimi Tarro, cuts & pops circles without cutting a release score. They are clean perfect circles. We've hung one of the leftover glass donuts (ie the unscathed leftover ) on an honorable nail for all to behold.

She does this as a matter of course & credits Janet (B.E. Resource Center) for circle tips that helped Mimi to accomplish her circle miracle.

I was told when first learning to cut, that the physics of glass wouldn't permit removing the circle after running the score unless there's a release score. Chalked up to surface tension.

So what's the deal, O cutter-folk? What's your experience?

xxoo,
Barbara

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:28 pm

PDXBarbara (Bader) wrote:One of my studio-mates, Mimi Tarro, cuts & pops circles without cutting a release score. They are clean perfect circles. We've hung one of the leftover glass donuts (ie the unscathed leftover ) on an honorable nail for all to behold.

She does this as a matter of course & credits Janet (B.E. Resource Center) for circle tips that helped Mimi to accomplish her circle miracle.

I was told when first learning to cut, that the physics of glass wouldn't permit removing the circle after running the score unless there's a release score. Chalked up to surface tension.

So what's the deal, O cutter-folk? What's your experience?

xxoo,
Barbara

there's nothing in physics about this. once the crack occurs, there's no surface tension left.

it has to do with the fact that if the cut is completely vertical, there's no bevel on an edge to trap the circle in the square, so it can fall right out. the hard part is getting a vertical cut.

Tony Serviente · Post by **Tony Serviente** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:53 pm

A few questions-How large a diameter circle, and how does she run the score. When you say she pops them out, just how does this happen? Can she do this with all glass types, ie Spectrum, BE, float,etc., and all thicknesses?I have cut alot of circles and would love to learn something new.

Kitty · Post by **Kitty** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:26 pm

i learned to cut circles from Patty Gray's tutorial at her website. sometimes they pop out without a release score, but mostly they don't. i was amazed the first time one came out whole ... i didn't think it was possible. it's all BE glass, btw, but soon it'll be float. gotta whole case here that i haven't opened yet, so busy with other things.

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:35 pm

Barbara

You can start a line of bracelets and necklaces for hard core punkers. Just make sure that your liability insurance is intact. Be sure not to work the edges at all. Never sell them to any body who is depressed or suicidal.

PDXBarbara · Post by **PDXBarbara** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:10 pm

Bert Weiss wrote:Barbara

You can start a line of bracelets and necklaces for hard core punkers. Just make sure that your liability insurance is intact. Be sure not to work the edges at all. Never sell them to any body who is depressed or suicidal.

Brilliant marketing concept, Bert... I'm starting a list of dozens of people I've known who'd LOVE it... mmmm... I THINK most of them're still alive....

BB

PDXBarbara · Post by **PDXBarbara** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:16 pm

Kitty wrote:i learned to cut circles from Patty Gray's tutorial at her website. sometimes they pop out without a release score, but mostly they don't. i was amazed the first time one came out whole ... i didn't think it was possible. it's all BE glass, btw, but soon it'll be float. gotta whole case here that i haven't opened yet, so busy with other things.

Yeah... Patty's picture-demos are great. Love the Rim demo too. Her circle demo suggests 4 release scores...

So, a crate of float? Is that similar in surface area to the contents of a BE crate? Or more like the 12-ton loads Bert plants in his garden?

Barbara

PDXBarbara · Post by **PDXBarbara** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:25 pm

Tony Serviente wrote:A few questions-How large a diameter circle, and how does she run the score. When you say she pops them out, just how does this happen? Can she do this with all glass types, ie Spectrum, BE, float,etc., and all thicknesses?I have cut alot of circles and would love to learn something new.

Hi Tony...
Mimi says she's done it mostly with large circles. I THINK she's only used BE & Uro. Maybe she'll post with her own description. But she's practiced a lot with the method Janet (@Bullseye) showed her (showd me, too. But I don't practice.).
It's kind of like: you score, then run the whole circle. Then you use pliars to kinda gently tug & visualize it breaking out right (that's my own new-age version...) which kinda guides your touchy-feely tug. I have not yet watched her persuade the circle to leave its parent. Perhaps it's hypnosis. Mimi's Devilish Cult O' Cutting...

I've asked her to teach me her dark magic so I can become a high (take me higher) priestess.

Say Mimi... R U THERE????

Barbara

PDXBarbara · Post by **PDXBarbara** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:27 pm

charlie wrote:
there's nothing in physics about this. once the crack occurs, there's no surface tension left.

it has to do with the fact that if the cut is completely vertical, there's no bevel on an edge to trap the circle in the square, so it can fall right out. the hard part is getting a vertical cut.

Huh? no surface tension?
Have you had one fall right out, Charlie?
Best,
Barbara

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:08 am

While running the score breaks the surface tension there are a number of factors that must be overcome to let the circle "drop out". There's the fact that there is no clearance between the circle and the border, so friction has a great effect. Also there are the irregularities from running the score. Now if you could run the score just slightly off vertical, it let the circle fall out... maybe that's Mimi's secret... being slightly off vertical.

Oh Mimi?????

Tony

Stuart Clayman · Post by **Stuart Clayman** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:14 am

I definately know what "slightly off mentally" is. But what is "slightly off vertical"?

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:23 am

When you run the score, you can control the way it spreads with unequal pressure on each side of the score. On a straight line, if you move your breaking (running?) pliers a millimeter off center, the line will start as a diagonal (seen through a cross-section of the glass) giving a flare to the edge after you separate the pieces. The pressure difference does even out as the run moves further from the fulcrum so the break gets closer to 90 degrees. Could Mimi be applying that sort of oblique pressure all around, giving her enough bevel to drop the circle out? I wonder about clamshell chips also.

If anyone has enough float and time to test this, please let us know.

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:46 pm

Marty wrote:When you run the score, you can control the way it spreads with unequal pressure on each side of the score. On a straight line, if you move your breaking (running?) pliers a millimeter off center, the line will start as a diagonal (seen through a cross-section of the glass) giving a flare to the edge after you separate the pieces. The pressure difference does even out as the run moves further from the fulcrum so the break gets closer to 90 degrees. Could Mimi be applying that sort of oblique pressure all around, giving her enough bevel to drop the circle out? I wonder about clamshell chips also.

If anyone has enough float and time to test this, please let us know.

Interesting point Marty. That may be the key to having the glass drop out without a lot of clams along the circumference. I'll have to try it the next time I cut circles... maybe tomorrow.

Tony

Pamela B. · Post by **Pamela B.** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:37 am

PDXBarbara (Bader) wrote:
charlie wrote:
there's nothing in physics about this. once the crack occurs, there's no surface tension left.

it has to do with the fact that if the cut is completely vertical, there's no bevel on an edge to trap the circle in the square, so it can fall right out. the hard part is getting a vertical cut.
Huh? no surface tension?
Have you had one fall right out, Charlie?
Best,
Barbara

Well, geez, they do it in the movies all the time when the bad guys want to break in through a window. Just slap a suction cup on, pull the perfect circle out. No problem.

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:02 am

MT Pam wrote:
Well, geez, they do it in the movies all the time when the bad guys want to break in through a window. Just slap a suction cup on, pull the perfect circle out. No problem.

Pam

You're just not "bad enough"

PDXBarbara · Post by **PDXBarbara** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:50 pm

MT Pam wrote:
Well, geez, they do it in the movies all the time when the bad guys want to break in through a window. Just slap a suction cup on, pull the perfect circle out. No problem.

YEAH! I always

about that in movies...(well, at least for the past couple years since glass became joined my family) ... just like in NYC scenes where the actor just raises a hand and a cab stops for them....
Barbara

Mimi Tarro · Post by **Mimi Tarro** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 2:18 pm

This is really silly...........the circle thing.......... I've been cutting 15 1/2" circles............the larger the circle the easier to cut. To clear up all the mystical stuff.............there is NO automatic "circle pop out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cut off any excess glass (more than 2inches) and gently ....with grozing pliers pull out and down GENTLY and just work it all the way around...as you do this, you can watch the score run a bit at a time. This was taught to me by Janet at the resource center..............but with smaller circles. Patty gray has a wonderful tutorial on cutting circles...............oh......by the way I have no "clam shells"............I would however LOVE a clamshell especially by SKUTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No physics required......Mimi Tarro

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 2:21 pm

Gee Mimi, I thought you had one of those hollywood secret agent cutters...

Nice to hear from you by the way.

Tony

Mimi Tarro · Post by **Mimi Tarro** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:46 pm

BY the way...............I forgot to mention ....I use the cheapest circle cutter available at bullseye resource center ALSO I use cutting oil only for circles................mystical properties........You know................Mimi

John · Post by **John** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:52 am

I have been cutting glass for 14 years, I have only ever once dropped a circle out without having release cuts. That was on 4mm glass.
However I was a tad cheeky at tech college, the teacher told us it was impossible to do. I wagered $50 I could. using any method without shelling either piece. Cut the circle, run the circle, break its back. Some ice in the centre, pour metholated spirits around the ring and ignite the metho. TAA DAA!! one circle one ring. That was on 6mm.
I only wish it was that easy for heavy weight.
How thick was the glass? What was the degree of the cutting wheel?

John

WarmGlass.com

Circle-cutting miracle?

Circle-cutting miracle?

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no miracles required!!!!!!!!!!

MYSTICAL NONSENSE