Fusing dichroic glass
Moderators: Brad Walker, Tony Smith
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Robert Cohen
Fusing dichroic glass
How do you keep pieces of dichroic glass from flowing together when they are the middle layer of a three layer fusing project?
Hi Robert,
I am new to this so excuse me if I say something not common practice. But as I sit here typing I am doing the exact project you are describing and have had that problem before. What I did this time was cut thin slivers of system 96 clear and set them in between peices. I am computer stupid so I unfortunatly do not know how to show the piece but i promise it turned out as well as I was hoping. I will continue to watch discussion as I hope someone with eperience has a better way because this was ALOT of work.
I am new to this so excuse me if I say something not common practice. But as I sit here typing I am doing the exact project you are describing and have had that problem before. What I did this time was cut thin slivers of system 96 clear and set them in between peices. I am computer stupid so I unfortunatly do not know how to show the piece but i promise it turned out as well as I was hoping. I will continue to watch discussion as I hope someone with eperience has a better way because this was ALOT of work.
You can control the following together of the dichroic in three ways. The first if to put a glass barrier between the dichroic glass. The second is to control the glass above the Dichroic so that it is stabilized during fusing. The third is to leave a small gap between the dichroic that will allow glass from underneath to flow into. The second method takes a little work to learn, but is easy when you consider the physics of gravity.
Tim
Tim
Re: Fusing dichroic glass
I'm just trying to picture what you are describing Robert;Robert Cohen wrote:How do you keep pieces of dichroic glass from flowing together when they are the middle layer of a three layer fusing project?
It's a glass sandwich, right? With the dichro pieces as the filling in a coloured base and a clear cap?
Question;
When you place the dichro pieces on the base glass, is the coating side up or down?
You have to clarify and describe it better and I'll try to help you if I can.
It ain't where you're from, it's where you're at!
Bea,
Are you asking about the difference between Dichroic against the shelf and on the top surface? Or are you asking about the difference between when it is capped and when it is on the top or against the shelf? In the first case there is not much difference aside from texture and possibly color shifting (slight). In the second case the difference is very dramatic. If you can point us in the right direction it will be easier to answer your question.
Tim
Are you asking about the difference between Dichroic against the shelf and on the top surface? Or are you asking about the difference between when it is capped and when it is on the top or against the shelf? In the first case there is not much difference aside from texture and possibly color shifting (slight). In the second case the difference is very dramatic. If you can point us in the right direction it will be easier to answer your question.
Tim
Hi Tim
Sorry to have been so vague
I have tried fusing dichroic on clear glass in the various ways :
1) under clear glass (dichroic facing on top and below) on top of a black piece - it was prettywishy washy.
2) I tried dichroic on black base fused on top of black without any clear on top - it looked dull.
Could it be the dichroic colours I am using? What are the ones which give the most dramatic effect? I prefer the bluey shades and have just ordered some rainbow strips to try out.
Bea
Sorry to have been so vague
I have tried fusing dichroic on clear glass in the various ways :
1) under clear glass (dichroic facing on top and below) on top of a black piece - it was prettywishy washy.
2) I tried dichroic on black base fused on top of black without any clear on top - it looked dull.
Could it be the dichroic colours I am using? What are the ones which give the most dramatic effect? I prefer the bluey shades and have just ordered some rainbow strips to try out.
Bea
Simply Bea Beads
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Judy Schnabel
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:45 pm
- Location: SW FL
- Contact:
Bea,
What brand dichroic are you using?
There's been discussion on the board about different brands firing differently.
I use only CBS. I mostly fire the dichro coated side down on black, blue, clear or red. I cap it sometimes with clear or with lighter shades of dichro. If capping it with dichro, be sure to place the final piece with the dichro side DOWN.
Judy
BTW, try the silver. It's fabulous.
What brand dichroic are you using?
There's been discussion on the board about different brands firing differently.
I use only CBS. I mostly fire the dichro coated side down on black, blue, clear or red. I cap it sometimes with clear or with lighter shades of dichro. If capping it with dichro, be sure to place the final piece with the dichro side DOWN.
Judy
BTW, try the silver. It's fabulous.
Bea,
I would say your disappointment has been due to the dichroic color. I have experienced very poor results full fusing with light blue (reflected color). The light blue coating breaks down (burns out) during the full fuse and you end up with a scummy look around its edges. I have had success when I tack fuse with all of the dichroic colors. Judy is correct, there are some brands that do not fuse well. My problem with them is they burn out or flake apart during fusing. Look in the archives under dichroic.
Tim
I would say your disappointment has been due to the dichroic color. I have experienced very poor results full fusing with light blue (reflected color). The light blue coating breaks down (burns out) during the full fuse and you end up with a scummy look around its edges. I have had success when I tack fuse with all of the dichroic colors. Judy is correct, there are some brands that do not fuse well. My problem with them is they burn out or flake apart during fusing. Look in the archives under dichroic.
Tim
Judy, Tim
Thanks for the replies...........
I use CBS on Moretti (am only using moretti for all my glass work) and I think you are right about my choice of colours.......
I am very partial to the blues but they don't seem to perform as well during fusing as when I am making lampworked beads........ I guess that's because I can't rake them or 'work' them as I can at the torch.
My kiln is the small Sierra PMC kiln with a front door so I can't try those raking effects I have read about.......
Judy - I have actually tried the silver on a black base....... it came out sort of okay but was too solid in one piece and too diffused in another...
Another question - when you put it dichro side on clear, wouldn't that be the side you want to feature? I still haven't been able to get a clean untextured finish on the side that is on the shelf (I use fibre paper).....
Thanks
Bea
Thanks for the replies...........
I use CBS on Moretti (am only using moretti for all my glass work) and I think you are right about my choice of colours.......
I am very partial to the blues but they don't seem to perform as well during fusing as when I am making lampworked beads........ I guess that's because I can't rake them or 'work' them as I can at the torch.
My kiln is the small Sierra PMC kiln with a front door so I can't try those raking effects I have read about.......
Judy - I have actually tried the silver on a black base....... it came out sort of okay but was too solid in one piece and too diffused in another...
Another question - when you put it dichro side on clear, wouldn't that be the side you want to feature? I still haven't been able to get a clean untextured finish on the side that is on the shelf (I use fibre paper).....
Thanks
Bea
Simply Bea Beads
Bea,
I use BE for my fusing and Moretti for beads. I find that the dichroic glass coating seems to react consistently with either glass. The biggest difference between beads and fusing is that the bead is really more of a three-dimensional surface and fusing is a two dimensional surface. On a bead the curvature of the bead and the associated dichroic enhances the look of the dichroic coating. To get the same effect in fusing you will need to create more depth by adding additional glass with or without dichroic coatings. I typically use 3 to 4 layers of dichroic glass to get the depth I want. It is not exactly like a bead, but gets close.
To get a very smooth surface try firing on shelf primer. If this still does not work you may need to polish the glass. Polishing will only help if the dichroic surface is captured between the layers.
Tim
I use BE for my fusing and Moretti for beads. I find that the dichroic glass coating seems to react consistently with either glass. The biggest difference between beads and fusing is that the bead is really more of a three-dimensional surface and fusing is a two dimensional surface. On a bead the curvature of the bead and the associated dichroic enhances the look of the dichroic coating. To get the same effect in fusing you will need to create more depth by adding additional glass with or without dichroic coatings. I typically use 3 to 4 layers of dichroic glass to get the depth I want. It is not exactly like a bead, but gets close.
To get a very smooth surface try firing on shelf primer. If this still does not work you may need to polish the glass. Polishing will only help if the dichroic surface is captured between the layers.
Tim
Tim
Thanks for the tips. I don't have much time nor space for my glass work which is why I resorted to fibre paper........ so that I don't have to put on kiln wash, let it dry etc........ and the shelf I have came with my (PMC) kiln which I have been told cannot have shelf primer.....
The roughness is not great unless I overfire and easy enough to smooth off with a grinding stone or sand paper....... but would prefer if I could have a better finish straight up......
I might try more layers of glass - the trick is to make sure they fuse properly and not slide off...... this can happen even if the pieces are glued on before I put them in the kiln......... I might just have to use more glue...
Cheers
Bea
Thanks for the tips. I don't have much time nor space for my glass work which is why I resorted to fibre paper........ so that I don't have to put on kiln wash, let it dry etc........ and the shelf I have came with my (PMC) kiln which I have been told cannot have shelf primer.....
The roughness is not great unless I overfire and easy enough to smooth off with a grinding stone or sand paper....... but would prefer if I could have a better finish straight up......
I might try more layers of glass - the trick is to make sure they fuse properly and not slide off...... this can happen even if the pieces are glued on before I put them in the kiln......... I might just have to use more glue...
Cheers
Bea
Simply Bea Beads
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Geri Comstock
- Posts: 340
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:16 pm
- Location: Northern CA
- Contact:
Dichro is tricky to fire until you have some experience with it.
First of all, never take it above 1500...high temps can burn the dichro coating off.
Certain dichro colors tend to darken with firing, especially some of the DichroMagic dark blues and purples. After a firing or two, they can almost look black when they're fired on black.
I think it's a good idea to always clear cap dichro, or fire it with the dichro side down on top of another glass because over time, the dichro coating can wear off or scratch when it's not capped with clear.
Good luck!
Geri
First of all, never take it above 1500...high temps can burn the dichro coating off.
Certain dichro colors tend to darken with firing, especially some of the DichroMagic dark blues and purples. After a firing or two, they can almost look black when they're fired on black.
I think it's a good idea to always clear cap dichro, or fire it with the dichro side down on top of another glass because over time, the dichro coating can wear off or scratch when it's not capped with clear.
Good luck!
Geri
Hi Bea,
Hope you had a good weekend! I think what Tim meant by firing on kiln wash was to sprinkle the dry powder on your shelf or shelf paper, then smooth it out. I just learned about this method on this site. I was advised to use the 110J paper sold through this site, sprinkle and smooth with your hand. My first firing I didn't know to smooth it out and just sprinkled and had a rough back. I'll let you know what happens next time. It certainly is easier than using kiln wash for me.
It is also my understanding that the glue burns off before any fusing takes place and will not be responsible for holding your pieces in place in any case. It seems to work best for me if I just try to make my top piece lie as flat and even as possible by the way I put the decorative layer together. I also learned on this web site that you can use hair spray and - tape? The thread I read this on got rather confused. Could someone clarify this information? Regular cellophane tape will burn away cleanly, even between layers?
Also, Bea, check out some of Charity's dichro pieces displayed on the ISGB site. She's a marvel!
Sharon
Hope you had a good weekend! I think what Tim meant by firing on kiln wash was to sprinkle the dry powder on your shelf or shelf paper, then smooth it out. I just learned about this method on this site. I was advised to use the 110J paper sold through this site, sprinkle and smooth with your hand. My first firing I didn't know to smooth it out and just sprinkled and had a rough back. I'll let you know what happens next time. It certainly is easier than using kiln wash for me.
It is also my understanding that the glue burns off before any fusing takes place and will not be responsible for holding your pieces in place in any case. It seems to work best for me if I just try to make my top piece lie as flat and even as possible by the way I put the decorative layer together. I also learned on this web site that you can use hair spray and - tape? The thread I read this on got rather confused. Could someone clarify this information? Regular cellophane tape will burn away cleanly, even between layers?
Also, Bea, check out some of Charity's dichro pieces displayed on the ISGB site. She's a marvel!
Sharon
Sharon
THAT's new to me !! ..... but then again - lots to learn still, only JUST started fusing.........
Does that mean you have to spray the powder with a fine mist of water to keep it down? I read somewhere that kiln wash powder (hope I got that right) is also hazardous if airborne?
As for hairspray - I read that too (somewhere ?) but also that the fumes are not good... and my kiln is in the lounge because that is the only suitable electrical outet.......
Tape huh ? That could be interesting.. I just did some pendants yesterday and thought I had all of them glued properly and placed correctly..... two of the d*rned ones slid off.... and since I have only a baby kiln I can't do more than 16pcs at a time........ and have run out of time....
Can anyone tell me if the fusing schedule changes if you have double shelves set up in the kiln? I just got my spare shelves and would like to try that out - won't get me double the number (kiln shelf rests are TOO big) but at least I could get another 6-8 pieces fired at the same time...
BTW - what is Charity's website?????
Thanks everyone
Bea
THAT's new to me !!
..... but then again - lots to learn still, only JUST started fusing.........Does that mean you have to spray the powder with a fine mist of water to keep it down? I read somewhere that kiln wash powder (hope I got that right) is also hazardous if airborne?
As for hairspray - I read that too (somewhere ?) but also that the fumes are not good... and my kiln is in the lounge
because that is the only suitable electrical outet.......Tape huh ? That could be interesting.. I just did some pendants yesterday and thought I had all of them glued properly and placed correctly..... two of the d*rned ones slid off.... and since I have only a baby kiln I can't do more than 16pcs at a time........ and have run out of time....
Can anyone tell me if the fusing schedule changes if you have double shelves set up in the kiln? I just got my spare shelves and would like to try that out - won't get me double the number (kiln shelf rests are TOO big) but at least I could get another 6-8 pieces fired at the same time...
BTW - what is Charity's website?????
Thanks everyone
Bea
Simply Bea Beads
Its also tricky to design with, apparently. More and more when I dichro work I think that its a great illustration of the capacity to create something ugly out of a beautiful material. We stained glass folks do the same thing with Urobouros and Yogiwhatever glass. Its tough to design-with and tempting to overuse.Geri Comstock wrote:Dichro is tricky to fire until you have some experience with it.
clip
Geri
Bea,
I know kiln wash powder is not good to breathe. I make sure I'm wearing a mask when I use it and just try to be careful. My problem is working in the garage/studio and dealing with the wind. I have to shut everything up when sprinkling the powder. The good thing is it is supposed to last for a lot of firings. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable (had to look that one up - never can remember how to spell it) than we are would tell us if we're taking too much risk by doing this.
I'm not sure if Charity has a web site. I've just seen photos when she was kind enough to share. I'll get back to you on that.
As far as the kiln shelves go I'll defer to someone else on that. Like you, I am new to all of this. I suspect they will want to know where your heating elements are.
Later,
Sharon
I know kiln wash powder is not good to breathe. I make sure I'm wearing a mask when I use it and just try to be careful. My problem is working in the garage/studio and dealing with the wind. I have to shut everything up when sprinkling the powder. The good thing is it is supposed to last for a lot of firings. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable (had to look that one up - never can remember how to spell it) than we are would tell us if we're taking too much risk by doing this.
I'm not sure if Charity has a web site. I've just seen photos when she was kind enough to share. I'll get back to you on that.
As far as the kiln shelves go I'll defer to someone else on that. Like you, I am new to all of this. I suspect they will want to know where your heating elements are.
Later,
Sharon
Sharon
My kiln is set up in the lounge because of the electrical outlet required...... so I might skip that method until I can move all my stuff into a proper work area (that will be a next lifetime thing at this rate... )
The kiln I have is the small Sierra PMC kiln which I bought from Rio and the elements are on the sides and back , none on the door, top or bottom as far as I can make out......
Just received my glass from Frantz as well so IF I get my act together I might be able to set some pieces up for fusing by this evening.... *hoping*
ONE day. I hope to be able to get a studio set up JUST the way it should be... proper ventilation, good lighting.....ALL my stuff in the same area..... !!! *one day*
Bea *sigh*
My kiln is set up in the lounge
because of the electrical outlet required...... so I might skip that method until I can move all my stuff into a proper work area (that will be a next lifetime thing at this rate... )The kiln I have is the small Sierra PMC kiln which I bought from Rio and the elements are on the sides and back , none on the door, top or bottom as far as I can make out......
Just received my glass from Frantz as well so IF I get my act together I might be able to set some pieces up for fusing by this evening.... *hoping*
ONE day. I hope to be able to get a studio set up JUST the way it should be... proper ventilation, good lighting.....ALL my stuff in the same area..... !!!
*one day*Bea *sigh*
Simply Bea Beads
Bea,
I know what you mean. Working in the garage in North Florida is not ideal. Burn up in the summer and freeze sometimes in the winter. I shouldn't complain. We actually have about six months that are tolerable for working outside.
Thanks again for the info on silver wire. I was fusing some pieces today and inserted a metal wire for hanging (Christmas ornaments) and smashed the ends of that thing with a hammer. What fun! They sure did fit between the layers of glass much better. Amazing some of the simple solutions we don't think of.
Hope you get to do some fusing.
Sharon
I know what you mean. Working in the garage in North Florida is not ideal. Burn up in the summer and freeze sometimes in the winter. I shouldn't complain. We actually have about six months that are tolerable for working outside.
Thanks again for the info on silver wire. I was fusing some pieces today and inserted a metal wire for hanging (Christmas ornaments) and smashed the ends of that thing with a hammer. What fun! They sure did fit between the layers of glass much better. Amazing some of the simple solutions we don't think of.
Hope you get to do some fusing.
Sharon