hi-heart lead and fused glass

Tess Farley · Post by **Tess Farley** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:45 pm

I am beginning a commissioned window which will consist of mostly fused pieces. Will two layers of clear Spectrum 96 fit into the channel of hi-heart lead, or should I fuse with a piece of regular and a piece of thin?

Thanks,
Tess

Sherry Salito-Forsen · Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:02 am

I've only used BE, but it works much better using one reg one thin.

Mike Byers · Post by **Mike Byers** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:29 am

If it's possible with your design, you might want to consider fusing your individual panels so there's a single-thickness "flange" at the edges. Then you could use a brass-cored lead such as Cascade's Reforce instead of high-heart lead. The brass-cored lead is quite a bit stronger, and will help support the weight of the fused panels.

Mark Hughes · Post by **Mark Hughes** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:52 am

The high heart that I use has a 3/8 inch high heart, so 2 layers of spectrum will easily fit inside with room to spare.

ernest porcelli · Post by **ernest porcelli** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:23 am

i use a 1/4 "normal lead from Bendheim&co, if the glass is to thick , grind as if it was ripple glass.the important thing is brass or tin fins for structural support . ep

Tess Farley · Post by **Tess Farley** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:14 am

What about a 1/4" channel -- will that work? I'm under a deadline with this project, so I'd like to avoid spending the extra time grinding all the edges down. I suppose I could fuse it to a single thickness on the edge, though I'd rather have it all double.

Mike Byers · Post by **Mike Byers** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 6:13 pm

You might be able to use brass, zinc or copper came; it's possible to fit 1/4" thick glass into this if you grind a slight bevel on the top and bottom edges. But with the weight of the fused pieces, I think you'll probably need some reinforcement if you use high-heart lead: the high-heart I've worked with is a fairly soft alloy and might not be stiff enough to support the panels.

Dani · Post by **Dani** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:36 pm

Be very careful how far to the edges you bring the second layer of glass... too close to where the single layer goes into the channel and you have an inherently weak spot that can fracture. Just measure your high-heart and the thickness of the glass your using to get a sense of what will work. You also have the option of fidding out the lead to widen it a bit, if necessary.

Good luck,

Dani

Tess Farley · Post by **Tess Farley** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:41 pm

This window is only going to be 24" x 36". The client is going to build some kind of L-post and hang it out by his pond in the summer, then move it inside for the winter. Originally he wanted it in a wood frame, but I've talked him into just the metal. Frame will be 3/4" zinc. Any need to strengthen the zinc in any way? What kind of hangers would you recommend? Are Handy Hangers strong enough? (sorry for so many questions -- every window I've ever built in this size has been installed)

I've got some 1/4 reforce, although I had hoped to mix up the lead sizes here and there to make it more interesting. Will a regular grinder head work or is there another head better for this kind of grinding?

Thanks for all yall's input. It's greatly appreciated.

Tess

Dani · Post by **Dani** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:03 pm

I would never recommend zinc... contrary to it's rigidity, it's actually one of the weakest metals to use and because it doesn't solder well, joints often fail more rapidly than they do with other metals. A lead border would hold up better... we've adapted metal pictures frames to take stained glass (with lead frame, too). I would just use a wood frame and waterproof it if it's hanging outside. Would be much more sturdy against wind, etc.

Just my 2,

Dani

Tess Farley · Post by **Tess Farley** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:03 pm

The wood frame is out and the client wants zinc. Would it be possible to strengthen the zinc by inserting something rigid into the channel?

Mike Byers · Post by **Mike Byers** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:04 am

I think the 3/4" zinc will be strong enough; just be sure it's nice and clean when you solder the joints, and use plenty of heat to insure you get a good solder bond. You could reinforce the top piece of zinc by sliding another piece of 3/8" zinc into the channel and then drilling through both the 3/4" and 3/8" pieces for your hangers. You could use stainless steel or brass S-hooks to hang the panel or you could make your own hangers from bare bronze brazing rod.

ernest porcelli · Post by **ernest porcelli** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:58 am

tess if you have an iron shop around have them make a steel frame, drill holes , epsolder copper wire to the lead to hold the panel into the frame. you would have to finish the steel with paint to prevent rust. i like useing 1"angle,but i've used 1/2" as well

Jacques Bordeleau · Post by **Jacques Bordeleau** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:30 am

The weight of the piece concerns me with just zinc, and additional frame. I agree with Ernest about having a narrow steel angle-iron frame built to install your panel into. I've done that several times for hanging stained glass panels of 16 sq.ft. (from a roller track no less) and it works great, and is hardly visible... very clean appearing. Just silicone the glass panel into the steel. A 1/2" outer bar is all I used for these panels, set into a 3/4" steel frame with wire-brush finish, clear coated. Sharp looking!

You know I have also had a smaller zinc-framed panel hanging for 20 years now (indoors) and so far so good..... but I recommend additional support, even if hidden. I have frequently slid steel reinforcement bars into the cavity of zinc cames...especially on the bottom bar, which will collapse from the weight of a window if the cavity is not filled (this statement does not apply to hanging panels). For 3/8" outer bar I use 1/4" steel round rod.... for 1/2" zinc I fill with 3/8" steel flat bar stock 1/8" thickness... you could use 1/2" steel rebar inside a 3/4" zinc I reckon. These steel bars should add additional support and rigidity.

Another good idea if you plan to just drill thru the corners for hanging holes, is to first solder a steel washer to the sinc as reinforcement, then drill thru. That way your holes won't stretch out over time. Final opinion, I would not trust this panel for outdoors service, with a zinc-only frame. That is a bad idea. It needs reinforcement as a bare minimum, and an outer frame of steel or wood... it really does. JMHO.

Hope this helps.... regards, Jacques

Tess Farley · Post by **Tess Farley** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 10:30 pm

Thanks to all of you for your opinions. I'll be getting a quote on having a steel frame made.

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:38 pm

Tess Farley wrote:Thanks to all of you for your opinions. I'll be getting a quote on having a steel frame made.

i've had frames built of normal aluminium frame stock (1-1.5") at micheals. you just have to tell them how thick the piece is. i used normal 1/2" H lead to frame the piece, and they used normal springy metal pieces to hold the piece into the Al frame.

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