Hey Keith, ball mill's running!

[Steph Mader]

I finally got it together to assemble the nifty ball mill. I have a heavy workbench, which I used to build in a frame for the mill. It runs great. I'm ready to crush stuff now, man! There won't be a large bit of glass left anywhere in my studio soon.

I cast a couple things this month with powders, and got some wonderful effects. I'm stoked.

Steph

[charlie holden]

Give us some details please Steph.

How big is it? Did you buy it or make it? What's the barrel made of?

You're using it to crush glass or mix mold materials? If crushing glass do you quench the glass first? Have you tried thick cullet yet or just sheet scraps? What does the crushing?

I built a ball mill to mix dry mold materials but I haven't been able to get it to turn the barrel consistantly without a little bit of pushing. I think the powered wheels are in a bad place. It is big enough to turn a 35 gallon barrel to mix 100 lbs or more of mold materials at once. I'd like to know if there are any secrets to the design of these things. I've never actually seen one other than in pictures.

Thanks, ch

[Steph Mader]

Hi Charlie,

Keith sold me a great old war horse of a ball mill. I assume he has gone on to younger, more beautiful ball mills, but that's just a rumor. It has two 5' long rubber-covered rods. They are maybe 3 or 4 inches in diameter. Both have bearings on the ends so that they turn. One has a pulley affixed to one end, which goes by a stepped belt arrangement to the motor.

I am using giant porcelain jars, one gallon, five gallon and I think ten gallon, which are placed on the rods on their sides so that they turn with the rods. I'm sure you already know all this stuff. I'm using it to crush glass into powder for lazy man's pate de verre. By that I mean that I don't place the colors in the mold, I just dump it in cire perdu-style. So, I will place thick cullet in the jar with porcelain balls (some are mini-morshmallow size, some are golfball size, depending on which size jar) and Keith tells me that in about 45 minutes I'll have good small frit/powder.

Keith does a lot of pate de verre work, and has quite a bit of information about ball mills in general. Maybe he'll jump into this conversation, since I just got the mill built but don't have much experiece with it yet.

Your invention sounds great, by the way. I like the idea of containing the dust and getting a good mix of materials. Let me know how you solve your rotating problem.

I am always so impressed with homemade tools. I have a frit crusher built from a garbage disposal, a huge steamer made from an old barrel, a glass saw made from an old homemade lapidary saw, and one of those pipe-crusher dealies for breaking up color.

Steph

[Carole Burton]

Hey Steph, sorry to butt in, but I had a homemade tumbler which is the same principle as a mill. It had rubber drums turning on metal rods. I would guess you will need the two different surfaces so the container will not slip. Or maybe could your container may be too heavy for the size motor??? Try a small load and see if it turns better.
Just some ideas and food for thought. Hope it helps. Carole...

[Carole Burton]

SORRY STEPH MY MESSAGE MEANT FOR CHARLIE. CAROLE.....

[Keith Clayton]

Hi Steph
Glad to hear you got things "rolling"-Ball milling glass is an art in itself and takes a bit to get it down. I've done allot of milling and the real beauty of it is minimal contamination. Periodically the mill will have to be stopped and sifted to make sure you don't get too much powder-the powder also acts as a cushion and prevents further crushing. You can hear all this-The machine is loud!!!
Remember too-those jars are EXPENSIVE if you have to replace them. Once they have the glass and the balls they are heavy. You should put a rubber mat like the ones they sell to stand on so that when you pull it off the machine it has some padding.
My days of milling ended with the frit pot set up-much more costly and time consuming. Of course now we just call Susan Green and lovely frit shows up at our door in various colors and sizes.
Steph your next purchase will have to be a ro-tap!!
Another fun machine that makes frit processing quck and painless (and less dusty)
Good Luck
Keith

[charlie holden]

Hi Charlie,

Keith sold me a great old war horse of a ball mill. I assume he has gone on to younger, more beautiful ball mills, but that's just a rumor. It has two 5' long rubber-covered rods. They are maybe 3 or 4 inches in diameter. Both have bearings on the ends so that they turn. One has a pulley affixed to one end, which goes by a stepped belt arrangement to the motor.

I am using giant porcelain jars, one gallon, five gallon and I think ten gallon, which are placed on the rods on their sides so that they turn with the rods. I'm sure you already know all this stuff. I'm using it to crush glass into powder for lazy man's pate de verre. By that I mean that I don't place the colors in the mold, I just dump it in cire perdu-style. So, I will place thick cullet in the jar with porcelain balls (some are mini-morshmallow size, some are golfball size, depending on which size jar) and Keith tells me that in about 45 minutes I'll have good small frit/powder.

Thanks Steph,

I don't already know all that stuff. I think the 5' rods must be the key. I built my attempt with a couple of lawn mower wheels on a belt driven shaft as the part that attempts to turn the barrel. The wheels mostly just slip against the sides of the barrel. On the other side the barrel is resting on a couple of free rotating casters. It's close, I just have to nudge it to get it to move for a while.

Could you tell me a couple of more details? How far apart are the 5' rods? I think my wheels are too far apart and the barrel sits too low down between them. And, does the rod that is powerd pull the barrel up in its direction or push the barrel towards the other rod?

I make 1/4 inch frit by putting my glass in a stainless basket, heating it to 1000 F and then dropping the whole thing into a big tub of water. I can break it up easily with a hammer after that. I don't need it any smaller. In fact it would be better if it was in the 1 inch range but I haven't been able to figure out how to get it to crack at that size.

Thanks again,

ch

[Steph Mader]

Hey Charlie,

I wonder if the material in the barrel isn't part of the problem. The glass and balls turn and fall pretty easily, at least at first. You just might be running up against more inertia. Is there a way to put a strip of inner tube around the barrel to get more purchase, or something like that? Seems like you could make it work.

I think the rods are about 8" or so apart for the small gallon jar, and then I can move the rod over to accomodate the bigger jars. I'm not sure if it matters which way the driving rod turns, but I'll check at the studio tomorrow.

If you email me your email address, I'll try to send you pics of the setup.
Steph

[Steph Mader]

Keith,

What's a ro-tap? Something very expensive that I can't live without? I seem to be in the midst of a major equipment hoarding phase. Maybe I was potty trained too early. Maybe one of my ancestors was a rodent.

Good idea to put rubber matting in front of the mill, it would really suck to break one of the jars. You're right about no contamination, though. That is worth any amount of trouble. I'm a happy girl.

Steph

[Keith Clayton]

Steph

A Ro-tap is a machine that has a series of screens that stack inside one another (the screens are beautiful-brass) Each screen has a finer mesh& they are available in ANY size. There is a lid at the top and a catch pan at the bottom (hence no dust). This whole stack-I use three screens now-goes in a machine that shakes the screens in a circular motion and taps them at the same time. Sounds like a train. Very quick for large volumes.
When milling you rotap the glass and put the large screen material back in for further crushing. The very fine powder goes to the bottom catch pan and you get the good stuff in between-Like panning for gold!!
I just did a workshop at Kent State and we were using the Spectrum fines from their cullet (very dirty) but we rigged up screens in a riciprolap and it worked great!
The machines are used in the foundry industry allot for sand testing to make sure all particles sizes are current.

Keith

[Steph Mader]

Oh, man. That sounds great. Where would I get such a fine thing?

Or maybe I could make a similar one. I was going to build a vibrating table anyway, to help compact the fine glass in the molds.

I went to a glass recycling workshop once, and the guy made a good table by suspending a double-decker platform inside a 2x4 frame with screen door springs. He put a motor on the lower level that had a lop-sided washer weight attached to the arbor, so it vibrated great.

Steph

[Brian and Jenny Blanthorn]

Give us some details please Steph.

How big is it? Did you buy it or make it? What's the barrel made of?

You're using it to crush glass or mix mold materials? If crushing glass do you quench the glass first? Have you tried thick cullet yet or just sheet scraps? What does the crushing?

I built a ball mill to mix dry mold materials but I haven't been able to get it to turn the barrel consistantly without a little bit of pushing. I think the powered wheels are in a bad place. It is big enough to turn a 35 gallon barrel to mix 100 lbs or more of mold materials at once. I'd like to know if there are any secrets to the design of these things. I've never actually seen one other than in pictures.

Thanks, ch

Try this as a start

Put the runner thingies about the same distance appart as the radius of the barrell

Thats a lot of weight U got R they bending also how fast is it going U want it so the glass tumbles down the side not spins round the edge

Give it a try open with a few test bits in

MayB a bit more

Another thing about thses porcelain barrells

Never put big stuff in I broke one

[Barbara Muth]

Keith,

What's a ro-tap? Something very expensive that I can't live without? I seem to be in the midst of a major equipment hoarding phase. Maybe I was potty trained too early. Maybe one of my ancestors was a rodent.

Good idea to put rubber matting in front of the mill, it would really suck to break one of the jars. You're right about no contamination, though. That is worth any amount of trouble. I'm a happy girl.

Steph

Hey Steph, 'gratz on your newest toy! I think the opportunity to get and hoard tools is one of the finest aspects of glassworking. (I get high on hardware stores!)

Barbara

[Carol]

Could someone please post pictures of a ball mill. I've never heard of them before and trying to imagine them from the descriptions posted my imagination has them looking like something from a torture chamber.

Curious

C.

[Keith Clayton]

Steph
You will have to do the honors-I wouldn't call it a torture device-I felt fairly tortured crushing glass prior to getting a Ball Mill.
As far as what you were describing about the vibrating table-I think that would work fine with the screens.
You can purchase the screens from McMaster Carr I believe.
Keith

[Steph Mader]

I'll see if I can figure out the pic-post thing. If you email me, I'll send you the pics that way, I actually know how to accomplish that.

Steph

[Tony Smith]

McMaster-Carr http://www.mcmaster.com carries the grading riddles (just put riddle in the search box and press "find"). They come in 3 or four different diameters and numerous screen meshes and stack on top of one another. The mixed material goes into the top riddle which has the coarsest screen. Each successive riddle down the stack has a finer screen. At the bottom is a closed pan. As the stack is vibrated, the material is graded and separated.

The vibrators are pricey, but you should be able to improvise something.

Tony