silk screening questions?

[shasta]

I'm wondering a few things. how long do screens last generally before the emulsion wears off? if using paradise paints how do people clean them? and is using an airbrush really really better than a squeegee or just kinda?
thanks for any help in advance! and all the help i've gleaned in the past thanks so much...

shasta

[Ron Coleman]

The emlusion will last for many screenings. Even a water based emulsion used with water based media will last a long time if you let the emulsion rest and dry out.

Water based media can be used with paradise paints and the cleanup is simple, just wash it off in the sink. I did some screening yesterday and I did 9 pieces and then cleaned the screen. I could have done probably 20 before the water based emulsion got too soft. Cleaning and drying will restore the screen.

If screen life is necessary, the emulsion and the media need to be matched.

A squeegee does well with the Paradise paints.

Ron

[shasta]

thanks for the info Ron. i don't have a clue what you mean by 'water based media' ??

[Ron Coleman]

thanks for the info Ron. i don't have a clue what you mean by 'water based media' ??

The media, or medium is what you mix the dry Pqaradise paints with to use them. Many mediums are available, both water based and oil based. Most oil based materials are made with pine oil and the smell is overpowering. The oils take solvents to clean them up.

The waterbased materials have almost no odor and clean up with water.

Clear as mud?

Ron

[Ron Coleman]

Some examples of mediums, look under holding agents and mixing mediums

http://thompsonenamel.com/products/supp ... rials3.htm



Ron

[shasta]

oh yes, i see the mud now. i ordered the paradise paint already mixed with the pine oil, so the media is already mixed in. but i should of ordered it dry, you say and just mixed with a water based one? such as what, can you give me a name or two?

[Ron Coleman]

The A-14 screening medium Thomspon's sells is real user friendly, water based too.

http://thompsonenamel.com/products/supp ... rials3.htm

Ron

[shasta]

cool. thanks sooooo much.

[Bert Weiss]

thanks for the info Ron. i don't have a clue what you mean by 'water based media' ??

The media, or medium is what you mix the dry Pqaradise paints with to use them. Many mediums are available, both water based and oil based. Most oil based materials are made with pine oil and the smell is overpowering. The oils take solvents to clean them up.

The waterbased materials have almost no odor and clean up with water.

Clear as mud?

Ron

Ron

Have you had success screening water based medium and enamel through screens that are water cleanup? Common sense told me not to try that. It certainly would make the process simpler.

[Ron Coleman]

thanks for the info Ron. i don't have a clue what you mean by 'water based media' ??

The media, or medium is what you mix the dry Pqaradise paints with to use them. Many mediums are available, both water based and oil based. Most oil based materials are made with pine oil and the smell is overpowering. The oils take solvents to clean them up.

The waterbased materials have almost no odor and clean up with water.

Clear as mud?

Ron

Ron

Have you had success screening water based medium and enamel through screens that are water cleanup? Common sense told me not to try that. It certainly would make the process simpler.

Sure have Bert. This is the process Avery has been teaching with a few of my own twists thrown in.

The emulsion to try is Ulano CDF QT50. It's a capillary film that gives a 50 micron layer of film. This stuff is real easy to work with.

For mediums, the Thompson's A-14 screening medium is really new and I tried it yesterday. Works nice with a lot of open time for a waterbased medium. Takes about 4-5 hours to air dry, faster if you warm it in the kiln

Ulano has information online at

http://www.ulano.com/

Click on "what to buy", then pull down and go to "CDF Direct film"
Clicl on "click for more information" for all the tech stuff.

Yesterday Bert, I did screened 9 sheets of glass and then cleaned the screen in the laundry tub. From start to finish it took about 30 min and the film was wet the whole time. After cleaning (just a spray off mostly) the film was a little soft but mostly from the water during clean up.

I've been getting the film from

http://www.valleylitho.com/acatalog/ind ... atalogBody

and screens from

http://poconoscreen.com/

The wood ones, nice and heavy.



Ron

My screen setup, the CDF QT-50 film is HOT PINK, like Spab.

[Bert Weiss]

Yesterday Bert, I did screened 9 sheets of glass and then cleaned the screen in the laundry tub. From start to finish it took about 30 min and the film was wet the whole time. After cleaning (just a spray off mostly) the film was a little soft but mostly from the water during clean up.

Ron

By cleaning, do you mean cleaning the enamel out of the screen or removing the Ulano mask?

I work with a Pro printer who shoots his own screens. He does a lot of printing for a stained glass artist. They buy Stencil Black Reusche enamel premixed with 175 Squeegee oil. That is the stinky stuff. The idea being that the ink and the screen use oppostie cleaning solvents.

I am considering a job with just one or 2 pulls so I might be able to get away with the easy stuff.

[Ron Coleman]

Yes, cleaning is washing out the enamel, no solvents for cleanup, just water.

To get rid of the stencil there is a special washout solution Ulano sells, water based.

Ron

[Don Burt]

Water-soluable mediums have been around a long time. Is Ron saying that new screen fabrics and emulsion technology now makes using water soluable media viable? I could see that: that old 'silk' screens might not let W S Media get through and stick to the glass, but new magic screens now allow W S M cheetin. Or has the media itself improved? What is the orginal attribute of pine oil that would make anyone choose it as a medium for silksreening? I'd like to know for documentary reasons.

[Tom White]

One very good reason to use fat oil (pine oil) is that when you silk screen to make waterslide decals the pigments (enamels) must be in a medium which will not disolve and release the color when the decal is applied. Fat oil is a reasonably fast drying medium when the color is laid down on the decal paper yet not so fast drying that it is a problem drying on the screen and clogging it. It also has a viscosity that is heavy enough when loaded with pigment to not seep through the screen and run. Besides, it is readily available and relatively cheap and it is what has been used for this application for centuries. The old saw " if it ain't broke, don't fix it." seems to hold true here. Premixed paints using fat oil are suitable for both decal making and direct screening so the maker does not have to keep two different paints on hand for two applications when one will work for both.

Best wishes,
Tom in Texas

[Ron Coleman]

Water-soluable mediums have been around a long time. Is Ron saying that new screen fabrics and emulsion technology now makes using water soluable media viable? I could see that: that old 'silk' screens might not let W S Media get through and stick to the glass, but new magic screens now allow W S M cheetin. Or has the media itself improved? What is the orginal attribute of pine oil that would make anyone choose it as a medium for silksreening? I'd like to know for documentary reasons.

I think the real advances have been in the development of the photopolymers for screen printing films..

The mediums and screen materials have been with us for a long time but the films keep evolving.

The new films aren't a solution for any type of large production runs but will last long enough for the short ones.

Ron

[shasta]

i'm messed up with meshes...? i ordered a 230 mesh screen and i was going to order some thompson enamels and their standard size is 80 mesh. do these have any correlation? do i need a finer enamel mesh with that screen? what is a girl to do?
thanks.

[Barbara Cashman]

This thread is of great interest. Am seriously planning to get to Arrowmont (again) in April for the Silk-Screening on Glass class. Sounds like a winner. - Barbara

[Ron Coleman]

i'm messed up with meshes...? i ordered a 230 mesh screen and i was going to order some thompson enamels and their standard size is 80 mesh. do these have any correlation? do i need a finer enamel mesh with that screen? what is a girl to do?
thanks.

I'm using 125 mesh screens with the Paradise paints which are very fine powder, probably finer than 300 mesh. The 80 mesh enamels are very coarse, more like sugar or salt and won't work with the screens. Thompsons sells finer painting enamels but I'm not sure how fine they are compared to the Paradise paints.

Ron

[Ron Coleman]

This thread is of great interest. Am seriously planning to get to Arrowmont (again) in April for the Silk-Screening on Glass class. Sounds like a winner. - Barbara

A class is worth its weight in gold. Silkscreening isn't that hard to learn but having someone with experience lead you through process will save you many mistakes and a lot of time.

Ron

[Vic]

We did a screen job where we pulled about 150 pieces of glass. We used #175 oil and cleaned the screen with mineral spirits. The screen stayed sharp with no sign of deteriorating.