newbie kiln wash questions

George Foster · Post by **George Foster** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:24 pm

I'm brand new to this, kiln is on the way. I have a couple of questions about kiln wash. Do you need to let the wash dry between coats? How do you know when a stainless steel mold is properly coated? Thanks in advance for any help and thanks for all I've already learned.

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:34 pm

[quote="theface"]I'm brand new to this, kiln is on the way. I have a couple of questions about kiln wash. Do you need to let the wash dry between coats?

No. If you're doing a shelf just change the direction of application 90 degrees each coat. You shouldn't be able to see the colour of the shelf through the wet wash. I pre-fire my shelves, lots don't. I think it becomes more important the larger the surface area of your piece(s).

How do you know when a stainless steel mold is properly coated? Thanks in advance for any help and thanks for all I've already learned.

You should have an even, uniform coat on the mild. Not thick, but definitely covered. Blast, heat and spray SS molds. Brock

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:09 pm

Hey Brock: One of the things I have whined about since I started fusing, is that I hate cleaning off the kiln shelves. I'm curious - what is your process for removing the kiln wash and then reapplying. Do you sand it off, scrape it off, wet it before you scrape it, do you apply with a spray, how many coats do you apply, do reapply after every use or every 2nd use?? Just curious, cuz I hate doing it......

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:56 pm

Kathie Karancz wrote:Hey Brock: One of the things I have whined about since I started fusing, is that I hate cleaning off the kiln shelves. I'm curious - what is your process for removing the kiln wash and then reapplying. Do you sand it off, scrape it off, wet it before you scrape it, do you apply with a spray, how many coats do you apply, do reapply after every use or every 2nd use?? Just curious, cuz I hate doing it......

I use one of those single edge razor blade holder thingies (that's a technical term, dilettantes would know it as a paint scraper).

One pass, no wash. If required I rub the shelf with fabri-cut.

Evreryones conditions are different. Because most of my work has a black bottom layer, I can get several to many firings off of a shelf. I apply anywhere between 8 and 14 coats. You normally have enough wash on there when you can no longer discern the colour of the shelf through the wash. If I was using hard opalescents aginst the shelf, I would not put on as many coats because I know I will only get one firing. The opalescents tend to take the wash with them when you lift your piece off the shelf.

I just compared pricing on kiln wash vs. ThinFire.

Kiln wash - .14 cents per shelf

ThinFire - 3.50 per shelf

Not a hard decision for me.

Of course, you have to factor in cleaning and application time, but if you have several shelves, and you should, you just do a bunch at once. Brock

dee · Post by **dee** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:58 pm

Kathie Karancz wrote:Hey Brock: One of the things I have whined about since I started fusing, is that I hate cleaning off the kiln shelves. I'm curious - what is your process for removing the kiln wash and then reapplying. Do you sand it off, scrape it off, wet it before you scrape it, do you apply with a spray, how many coats do you apply, do reapply after every use or every 2nd use?? Just curious, cuz I hate doing it......

hi kathie, i have 21" round shelves and while this is the least favorite of my studio chores, it's definitely the most necessary ;P i use hotline hifire primer, it's similar to the be, mix it 4 parts water to 1 part kiln wash, apply 6 coats, sometimes 7 if i'm going to comb, will refire on a used shelf 2 times over 1400 deg, multiple times if it's all under 1400 until the kiln wash starts looking iffy, i clean with water and scrubby thing from the paint dept at lowes - another fine technical term there brock

- then let the shelves dry and apply new, unlike brock, i only prefire if i need the shelf quickly and don't have a load firing in the kiln, otherwise, it dries well on the top of the kiln with a couple of shelf supports underneath to aid in placing it on a warm/hot kiln lid, since i do things in batch mode, some shelves may be sitting around the studio drying for a few days before i use them, all depending on what's going on....

i have tried ed hoy's original primo primer, i only use it if i have clear on the bottom and then only if i'm not firing something twice, seems to promote devit if the surface against it becomes the top of a piece and is full fired twice and i've had some strange results when i first tried it with varoius colored transparent glass as the bottom layer, but when i'm doing certain types of firings i find it usefull as it wipes/brushes/vacuums off and it's not as nasty or expensive as thinfire to deal with so i keep some of that around also, they have supposedly improved it, just ordered another tub of it as i'm getting low - they sell it in a 1 or 1.5 lb size and 5 lb size, you could try that and see if you like it - i take a damp rag and wipe it off afterwards then just apply fresh - that one is one use/prep kiln wash....

that's my $.02

D

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:08 pm

Hey Dee: I think that was worth far more that .02 cents (US). So you put your used kiln shelf in the sink and then just wash it off??? I like that... I have a sink in my studio but have been doing what Brock said (the razor thingey) and have been concerned about scraping and just don't like the way the kiln wash flies around in the air. My question about washing off the shelves to take the kiln wash off is: do you not worry about plugging up your sink/pipes??? or do you have something in your sink to trap the powder??

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:34 pm

Hey Kathie,

I place newspaper on a work surface with a couple of kiln posts to lift the shelf off the paper. Using the thingy I scrape the used wash off onto the newspaper. If there is any dust I spray it with water using a mister thingy (not Mr. Thingy). After I scrape down all the shelves I cover the scrapings with another layer of newspaper and start the application of wash. The second layer of newspaper prevents the scrapings from getting picked up by the brush thingy.

Cheers,

Bob

dee · Post by **dee** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:43 pm

Kathie Karancz wrote:Hey Dee: I think that was worth far more that .02 cents (US). So you put your used kiln shelf in the sink and then just wash it off??? I like that... I have a sink in my studio but have been doing what Brock said (the razor thingey) and have been concerned about scraping and just don't like the way the kiln wash flies around in the air. My question about washing off the shelves to take the kiln wash off is: do you not worry about plugging up your sink/pipes??? or do you have something in your sink to trap the powder??

lol nope, i don't have the luxury of a sink, bucket is what i have ;P i have some home made stands that hold 2 of the large shelves, i put them on there and have at it ;P then i toss the water down the driveway when it needs changing ;P and i wouldn't dump it down the drain as yes, i would expect it to find someplace to start a nice solid lump of crud to clog the pipe ;P
D

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:02 pm

lol nope, i don't have the luxury of a sink, bucket is what i have ;P i have some home made stands that hold 2 of the large shelves, i put them on there and have at it ;P then i toss the water down the driveway when it needs changing ;P and i wouldn't dump it down the drain as yes, i would expect it to find someplace to start a nice solid lump of crud to clog the pipe ;P
D

What's with the P, D? B.

dee · Post by **dee** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:46 am

Brock wrote:lol nope, i don't have the luxury of a sink, bucket is what i have ;P i have some home made stands that hold 2 of the large shelves, i put them on there and have at it ;P then i toss the water down the driveway when it needs changing ;P and i wouldn't dump it down the drain as yes, i would expect it to find someplace to start a nice solid lump of crud to clog the pipe ;P
D

What's with the P, D? B.

it's my unique smile B
D

Brock · Post by **Brock** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:01 am

dee wrote:
Brock wrote:lol nope, i don't have the luxury of a sink, bucket is what i have ;P i have some home made stands that hold 2 of the large shelves, i put them on there and have at it ;P then i toss the water down the driveway when it needs changing ;P and i wouldn't dump it down the drain as yes, i would expect it to find someplace to start a nice solid lump of crud to clog the pipe ;P
D

What's with the P, D? B.
it's my unique smile B
D

OK by me. B

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:36 pm

OK, now I think I have it:
I use the razor thingey, then
the mister thingey (not the guy watching TV upstairs),
then the brush thingey, dry and
then into the heater thingey

I think I like the shelf thingey in the bucket thingey, scraped down by the razor thingey and then rinsed and dried and then go on to the brush thingey

You guys are just so helpful.....

Kay · Post by **Kay** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:53 pm

Kathie Karancz wrote:OK, now I think I have it:
I use the razor thingey, then
the mister thingey (not the guy watching TV upstairs),
then the brush thingey, dry and
then into the heater thingey

I think I like the shelf thingey in the bucket thingey, scraped down by the razor thingey and then rinsed and dried and then go on to the brush thingey

You guys are just so helpful.....

Is a hand sander offlimits?(outside and with a mask)

Kathie Karancz · Post by **Kathie Karancz** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:58 pm

Hey Kay: That's a great question?????

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:59 pm

Kay wrote:Is a hand sander offlimits?(outside and with a mask)

it's easier and far less dusty if you use a razor scraper unless you've got a fiber shelf. in that case, yes, a sander with preferably a dust pickup can be used.

Brad Walker · Post by **Brad Walker** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:04 pm

Kay wrote:Is a hand sander offlimits?(outside and with a mask)

That's what I use.

By the way, Hotline (Ed Hoy) does sell a kiln wash that comes off with a damp cloth. No scraping needed. It performs pretty well, but does need to be reapplied frequently.

dee · Post by **dee** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:25 pm

Brad Walker wrote:
Kay wrote:Is a hand sander offlimits?(outside and with a mask)
That's what I use.

By the way, Hotline (Ed Hoy) does sell a kiln wash that comes off with a damp cloth. No scraping needed. It performs pretty well, but does need to be reapplied frequently.

that's their "primo" primer - are you using it with colored transparents against it? i use it alot when i'm doing my inner glow pieces - 2 times at full fusing temps thru the kiln and what is the bottom side against that primer during first fuse becomes top side in second fuse and this when i experience devit - since i am putting these pieces thru additional coldworking afterwards it's not a concern for me but it might be for others .....

and i clean it and reapply that one every time....
D

Brad Walker · Post by **Brad Walker** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:31 pm

dee wrote:
Brad Walker wrote:By the way, Hotline (Ed Hoy) does sell a kiln wash that comes off with a damp cloth. No scraping needed. It performs pretty well, but does need to be reapplied frequently.
that's their "primo" primer - are you using it with colored transparents against it? i use it alot when i'm doing my inner glow pieces - 2 times at full fusing temps thru the kiln and what is the bottom side against that primer during first fuse becomes top side in second fuse and this when i experience devit - since i am putting these pieces thru additional coldworking afterwards it's not a concern for me but it might be for others .....

and i clean it and reapply that one every time....

Good point, and good to know. I have only used it directly on the shelf for single firings and haven't used it the way you have. I find it a little more prone to bubble formation than Bullseye, but like it for small, quick firings (like magnets).

dee · Post by **dee** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:30 pm

Good point, and good to know. I have only used it directly on the shelf for single firings and haven't used it the way you have. I find it a little more prone to bubble formation than Bullseye, but like it for small, quick firings (like magnets).[/quote]

i've got a bucket of the "new improved" flavor of primo on the say, after tucson i'll try that with colored glass against it again and see what happens - also since it's much more powdery, it's very difficult to smooth it before firing like be or the hotline flavor of kilnwash so the back may not be as smooth....
D

Cher · Post by **Cher** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:42 am

Is a hand sander offlimits?(outside and with a mask)[/quote]

I've got 2 shelves that won't clean well with the razor scraper, but the Makita sander with a bag and using drywall screen instead of sandpaper works da best, using all safety precautions, 'natch

Yo

WarmGlass.com

newbie kiln wash questions

newbie kiln wash questions

Re: newbie kiln wash questions